Keto science

(Ivy) #1

Why does keto prevent muscle loss/build muscle–a complete explanation Is what I would like to get at.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Eating a low enough carb intake to get into ketosis does not preserve muscle mass.

What preserves or builds muscle is eating enough protein. We recommend 1.0-1.5 grams of protein per kg of lean body mass per day.

(Ivy) #3

Why doesnt the SAD threshold of eating at bodyweight for muscle preservation apply totally to keto?

#4

https://www.google.com/search?q=advanced+glycation+end+products+muscle+atrophy

https://www.google.com/search?q=hyperglycemia+muscle+atrophy

Insulin inhibits growth hormone and Growth hormone drives ketogenesis as I’ve stated elsewhere. Caffeine raises growth hormone also and many on here use caffeine instead of intermittent fasting, meditating and exercising. Ketogenesis is basically the metabolism for wild animals and makes us feel like strong wild animals that we’re capable of being. Growth hormone also makes sure that fatty acids are stored intramuscularly while insulin stores fatty acids in adipose tissue.
https://www.google.com/search?q=growth+hormone+intramuscular+fat

The reason I know growth hormone drives ketogenesis is because I have growth hormone deficiency and can only produce ketones and gain muscle if I eat once a day.

Then there’s Prostaglandins which are made from Omega 6’s and increase muscle mass. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid#Muscle_growth)

There’s also a hidden reason but it’s part of my discovery. I can’t share it on a forum.

(Ivy) #5

If you take arachidonic acid as a supplement, in a pill, does tat have the same natural effect?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

Strictly speaking, it’s glucagon that drives ketogenesis, and insulin that inhibits it.

#7

I don’t know but I wouldn’t consume any PUFA supplements because unsaturated fatty acids are very sensitive to oxidation and break down into inflammatory lipid peroxides. Arachidonic acid is found in meat and non rancid nuts. Then stored in cell membranes and is converted into prostaglandins during fasting and exercise. Prostaglandins from Omega 6’s have many beneficial effects but can be deadly if we live around a lot of air pollution.

I see it as fatty acids being used as fuel and growth factors in a controlled manner because excess glucose isn’t around.

(Ivy) #8

Can you turn around a bad GKI / ketone / glucose reading by exercising or yoga or something in between the 2-3 hour mark for testing after a meal?

(Bob M) #9

Maybe. It depends. For me, the exercise I do causes my blood sugar to go up. I do body weight exercise to failure and HIIT. Supposedly, if you do lower intensity exercise, you can get glucose to go down.

This is also true NOW, after I’ve been doing this 7+ years. Not sure what happened originally, and didn’t have the best tools back then (no CGMs).

I personally found ketones to be confusing when I tested before and after exercise. But, in general for me, blood glucose going up means lower ketones and vice versa.

(Bob M) #10

Any idea what level of “insulin”? Paul Saladino came out with one of his “it’s this way or you’re wrong” tweets, where he listed the highest “acceptable” limit of insulin as 5mIU/ml. In 7+ years, I’ve only had two readings below that, and one of those was after 4.5 days fasting. All the rest of them are higher.

(Ivy) #11

What about when ketone le els are dangerous?

meaning levels too high

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

Far be it from me to correct Paul Saladino, but my understanding is that the threshold varies from individual to individual. I would say that it’s probably the same level that inhibits glycolysis and thereby keeps triglycerides inside fat cells. This would make sense, anyway, since you don’t want to be inhibiting ketogenesis while at the same time allowing fat out of the fat cells.

If you lost fat while your insulin was above Saladino’s maximum, then either his calculations are wrong, or you are an outlier. Either could be true, actually, especially since his number is likely to be an average.

Diabetic ketoacidosis technically is diagnosed when serum β-hydroxybutyrate reaches 10.0 mmol/L, but symptoms aren’t generally observed until it reaches 20.0, which is an order of magnitude larger than nutritional ketosis. No one whose pancreas is producing any insulin at all is going to see those levels.

#13

We know that Glucagon maintains glycemia by increasing glucose production. Glucagon causes the release of growth hormone. Growth hormone has been shown to increase ketones.
https://www.google.com/search?q=growth+hormone+ketones

I would love to see evidence of glucagon directly increasing ketones in the liver of humans.

(Ivy) #14

my gki got to 17.5

(Eric) #15

Keep in mind that GKI is a combination of Ketones and Glucose and not the same as your ketone number. The higher the GKI the lower your state of ketosis supposedly. A score of 9 or higher suggests you are not in ketosis

(Ivy) #16

Anyone take CBD and get better #s?

(Eric) #17

I make my own CBD tinctures in MCT oil and have not noticed any impact on my numbers in either direction

(Ivy) #18

I can get fat adapted even though my gki may read not in ketosis?
or it doesnt set me back a day?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19
(Ivy) #20

CBD helps, I tried some today after eating