Keto not working for me

[bambiying2]

I keep getting an error when I try to submit.

[devhammer]

First, staying in nutritional ketosis is really pretty difficult to maintain, I think more so than is implied by many “keto” people on the web. Historically it was closely monitored by health professionals who made all the decisions about diet and testing. And while chasing macros it is so easy to default to consuming lots of butter, meat fats, olive oil, exogenous ketones, and fat bombs (all low nutrient density), which may get you to high fat % and keto numbers but you are unlikely to loose weight this way, much the opposite.

While I agree with your point on the wisdom of engaging a good health professional who understands keto, I would disagree with some of the above. You will find very few people here advocating the use of exogenous ketones at all, as they are not particularly useful for weight loss (as you note) or for some of the therapeutic reasons many people go keto (IR, T2D, etc.) the exceptions are a few scenarios where they may be helpful, such as in certain brain ailments, though their use there is (at least as far as I’m aware) somewhat speculative, but shows hopeful signs.

Not sure what you mean by “nutritional ketosis” being “difficult to maintain”. Doesn’t require fat bombs, nor exogenous ketones. Just requires not spiking insulin, which is not hard to do, IMO. Granted, not everyone will find it easy, depending on the derangements of their particular metabolism. But I’d like to hear more about what you mean by it being difficult.

Not challenging you. I’d like to understand better, since what you’re saying is contrary to my experience and to what I’ve heard from many, many others.

[rodan5150]

I’ll echo this, it is easy enough for me that it has become my “normal” state. I’m not saying it should be easy for everyone because everyone is different for sure. But for me, it is easy to maintain a state of mild nutritional ketosis.

[larry]

You will find very few people here advocating the use of exogenous ketones at all, as they are not particularly useful for weight loss (as you note)

Not useful, in fact, for achieving nutritional ketosis.

[Rookie]

Thank you so much for telling us what you went thru. I’m having a lovely time losing no weight on a low carb diet…so your experience with such a good doctor might be just what “moves the needle on the scale” for me.

[trekkin1]

Wow, lots of good points and questions, clearly from a clued-in bunch of folks.

There are a lot of people pushing exogenous ketones for getting into and staying in Ketosis. Jimmy Moore, Doc Muscles, and most recently Mark Sisson if I understood his recent blog correctly. I experimented with them, went though a jug of Ketocana (including while backpacking in deep ketosis; main effect was a feeling of being hyped up for an hour or two). But I no longer use them; Ted says to make your own ketones, plus you don’t need the additional empty calories. I do what Ted says…

[Adam]

Have read a lot of Dr Ted Naimans stuff, very interesting to hear from one of his patients - thanks for sharing.

[Donna]

With Hashimoto’s and autoimmune issues you must eliminate dairy and gluten both, to determine if they give you trouble. Many of us (not all) with it have cross-issues from the dairy. Gluten creates an autoimmune response that destroys the thyroid, and dairy has a similar protein structure, alas.

Having said that, it is also more difficult, but not impossible!, to lose weight post-menopause. It will take time.

Reducing protein isn’t bad, but make sure your antibodies are well-controlled. Autoimmune inflammation is systemic, and affects the whole organism.

Good luck! <3

[beacheidi]

This is a great discussion. Can anyone give concrete examples of foods that allow you to lower your protein but are rich in fat? I believe I need to reduce my protein from around 70-90g a day but not sure how.

Thanks.

[Rookie]

Thanks for all the great info. I need to read up on the autoimmune disfunction creating havoc in my body. I kept some heavy cream for coffee because the casein is negligible, and hope I can keep aged cheddar, Parmesan reggiano, and Romano. But maybe it will all have to go. First and foremost I need to find a doc that tests more than tsh levels. The search is ongoing.

[jfricke]

First and foremost I need to find a doc that tests more than tsh levels. The search is ongoing.

If you want to test your thyroid function, You can do this through an online testing service that contracts with a lab in your community. The drawback is you will have to pay out of pocket. I have an HSA card which helps as it is pretax money at least.

Here are a couple of lab services. There are more if you Google. You have to look around a bit for one that offers testing in your area. I had to drive about 35 miles for a lab which isn’t bad considering I’m 25 miles from a Walmart.

http://www.directlabs.com/

https://www.labcorp.com/wps/portal/services

Walk-In Lab | Lab Testing: Order Cheap Blood Work Lab Tests Online

[Donna]

. First and foremost I need to find a doc that tests more than tsh levels.

Demand the tests. For Hashimoto’s you need to have T3 and other tests done routinely, anyway. That’s standard good practice. I get six thyroid tests done regularly. Do you see an endo or an ENT for the Hashimoto’s? You should, as they are more familiar with our situation. Izabella Wentz’s page has a list of good Hashimoto’s physicians.

[Rookie]

If I can’t find a competent pcp i will have to find a better endo. I’m looking for someone well versed in hypothyroid issues, not afraid of natural dessicated thyroid hormone therapy, iodine therapy, etc. I have an appt late March with a naturopath in Connecticut…about an hour from me, so unless I find some closer to me that can see me sooner I await my appt. I would rather try a good practitioner first, but if I find no one who can treat “the whole me” I might have to use a private lab. Thanks for the links…I’ve written them down

[Rookie]

I’ll check out her page, thanks. You would think Mass would have more cutting edge doctors, but I’m having a hard time finding one, and one that my insurance covers. I’m retired so unlimited money is not a cross I carry

[Betsy]

I have been through all this, too. Insurance is usually the sticking point. The best docs don’t take it. I was so lucky to find a good one here who takes insurance - and even Medicare. Good luck with your search.

With respect to doing your own testing, I have a hard time figuring out what the point is, other than data. I like data, too. But if you’re trying to get a diagnosis and treatment, if the doc won’t order the tests in the first place will he use the results if you bring them in? What have people experienced with this?

[Bacon]

Avocado, coconut butter, eggs,just to name a few there are lots of food lists on the internet,I’m not afraid of protein, I believe it is very beneficial to weight loss and fixing metabolic syndrome,the amino acids in protein have lots of metabolic advantages

[BaconNectar]

I’m not afraid of protein, I believe it is very beneficial to weight loss and fixing metabolic syndrome

Show me the science. Protein is insulinogenic, and causes problems for those trying to improve there IR and T2D

[Bacon]

Don’t confuse this with blood sugar spikes,the insulinogenic properties you speak of are for the amino acid uptake,insulin equals storage,followed by glucagon,glucagon equals release,to create a balance in the system.the better/higher quality the protein source is the better the effect,if you aren’t looking to effectively utilize the protein you are ingesting then choose one with low insulinogenic effect such as uncured Bacon which is probably the best suggestion and most obvious,nature’s pretty smart,if it only caused an insulin effect you would die from lowering a non elevated blood sugar,this is why protein by itself can help with fat loss as the glucagon effect releases stored energy to create this balance in case there is blood sugar removed during the amino uptake process.insulin prevents death by lowering blood sugar,glucagon prevents death by raising blood sugar,if you want more info you could talk to the dudes guest expert amber o hearn or visit her website for more info ketotic.com or maybe track the progress of the people participating in zero carb January, and see what type of results they will have with eating primarily protein, I will certainly be curious to see how that works out for them ,don’t get me wrong I love healthy fats ,always have I just think some people think protein turns immediately into sugar and that is simply not the case the body is much more sophisticated than that,hope this helps,keep calm and keto on

[Bacon]

Here are a couple interesting discussions on YouTube if you are interested in this subject,one is called,finding your optimal protein intake on a ketogenic diet,it’s on the primal edge health channel which is all about keto,you can also check out protein intake on ketogenic diets over on the ketogains YouTube channel,hope this helps

[bethcox1979]

May I gently, but clearly, suggest that perhaps your expectations are not realistic?

Hey Larry - Love your gentle approach! It’s very supportive. This type of advice has been helpful for me too. And finally I’m happy to say that after my post a few of days ago that my belt went in 2 (2!) notches today. Slow and steady wins the race. My weight is the same, but I’m not going to sweat it.