Keto not working for me

(Jacquie) #74

Good plan! :slight_smile: I’ll be curious to know how it goes for you.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #75

With keto, 100% effort includes TIME.

Lowering calories isn’t part of keto, and may in fact be counterproductive, as it can lower your basal metabolic rate, and make it even harder for you to achieve your goals, not to mention potentially making you feel cold and tired.

Keep carbs to <20g per day, consume enough protein to maintain muscle (general guidance is 1-1.5g per kg of lean body mass), and fat to sateity. Most of your calories will be coming from fat on the ketogenic WoE.

You commit to doing this for at least 6 weeks, if not longer. Any less than that and you cannot be sure that you are fat-adapted.

Once you have become fat-adapted, if the needle is still not moving for you, you could try adding in either intermittent fasting (one IF plan would be eating in a 4-hour window each day, meaning you’re fasting for 20 hours a day), or even extended fasting. For example, I was struggling over the holidays with a little weight gain, so I went on an extended fast (I’m on day 5) with just some supplemental fat to keep me going, and I’ve dropped around 6 pounds in 4 days, after having gained that much over a couple of weeks.

And while I would encourage you to continue what sound like excellent exercise habits, be aware that exercise is really not a primary driver of weight loss. It’s great for your health, but with minor exceptions at the edges in terms of glycogen depletion, it doesn’t drive ketosis. What you eat does, and whether your body is fat-adapted.

I wish you luck, and I encourage you to be patient. It won’t happen overnight, and for some people it takes some tweaking, but keto DOES work. Hang in there!

#76

Thanks. I was using IF yesterday, which was why my calorie count was low. I’ll stay the course for the time being. But I even remember back in the day with Atkins that it was faster than this.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #77

If you’re only two weeks in with Keto, it’s too early to be doing IF, as you are probably not yet fat-adapted.

And if you do IF, you should still be consuming the same number of calories that you need to support your basal metabolic rate, plus activity.

And depending on how long ago you did Atkins, it’s no surprise it was easier. Weight loss gets harder as we age. I did Atkins in the 90s and dropped 30lbs almost effortlessly. It’s much harder for me now, hence the need for occasional extended fasting. I find that frustrating, but it is what it is.

Keep things simple. Do keto (not IF, not extended fasting) for at least 6 weeks, with the basic parameters I described. If you’re still not making progress at that point, come on back, and we can help you figure out what you might need to tweak.

#78

Thanks. Great advice and I’ll take it! I appreciate your time.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #79

You’re very welcome.

KCKO!

(Jo Lo) #80

Hi folks,

This is an interesting thread with many useful remarks. I would like to add a few things based on my experience doing LCHF and keto for about 2 years, reading everything in sight, and consulting with a brilliant keto doc.

First, staying in nutritional ketosis is really pretty difficult to maintain, I think more so than is implied by many “keto” people on the web. Historically it was closely monitored by health professionals who made all the decisions about diet and testing. And while chasing macros it is so easy to default to consuming lots of butter, meat fats, olive oil, exogenous ketones, and fat bombs (all low nutrient density), which may get you to high fat % and keto numbers but you are unlikely to loose weight this way, much the opposite.

Second, it is a big enough deal for your health that it’s a good idea to find a good LCHF doctor and go to them for a full physical, and also advice about diet and exercise. So, living in Seattle, I went to Dr Ted Naiman and got a full blood panel done plus CAC scan. All came back with nice results (zero CAC at age 60!), but since I was a little high in body fat (25%) he prescribed eliminating all added fats until I reached a lower fat percentage. This was a surprise to me because I had been pumping added fats to stay keto! But it had apparently been increasing my body fat by several percentage points over a year or so. I think this is one possible answer to those who say they are not losing weight, IMO. Ted advised just eating real LCHF foods (eggs, meats), which conveniently tend to come with the correct fat/protein ratio.

I no longer stress about staying keto. If you eat a careful KCHF diet and exercise you will go in and out of keto. For most of us, that might be good enough.

(bambiying2) #81

I keep getting an error when I try to submit.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #82

While I agree with your point on the wisdom of engaging a good health professional who understands keto, I would disagree with some of the above. You will find very few people here advocating the use of exogenous ketones at all, as they are not particularly useful for weight loss (as you note) or for some of the therapeutic reasons many people go keto (IR, T2D, etc.) the exceptions are a few scenarios where they may be helpful, such as in certain brain ailments, though their use there is (at least as far as I’m aware) somewhat speculative, but shows hopeful signs.

Not sure what you mean by “nutritional ketosis” being “difficult to maintain”. Doesn’t require fat bombs, nor exogenous ketones. Just requires not spiking insulin, which is not hard to do, IMO. Granted, not everyone will find it easy, depending on the derangements of their particular metabolism. But I’d like to hear more about what you mean by it being difficult.

Not challenging you. I’d like to understand better, since what you’re saying is contrary to my experience and to what I’ve heard from many, many others.

(Ross Daniel) #83

I’ll echo this, it is easy enough for me that it has become my “normal” state. I’m not saying it should be easy for everyone because everyone is different for sure. But for me, it is easy to maintain a state of mild nutritional ketosis.

(Larry Lustig) #84

Not useful, in fact, for achieving nutritional ketosis.

#85

Thank you so much for telling us what you went thru. I’m having a lovely time losing no weight on a low carb diet…so your experience with such a good doctor might be just what “moves the needle on the scale” for me.

(Jo Lo) #86

Wow, lots of good points and questions, clearly from a clued-in bunch of folks.

There are a lot of people pushing exogenous ketones for getting into and staying in Ketosis. Jimmy Moore, Doc Muscles, and most recently Mark Sisson if I understood his recent blog correctly. I experimented with them, went though a jug of Ketocana (including while backpacking in deep ketosis; main effect was a feeling of being hyped up for an hour or two). But I no longer use them; Ted says to make your own ketones, plus you don’t need the additional empty calories. I do what Ted says…

(Adam L) #87

Have read a lot of Dr Ted Naimans stuff, very interesting to hear from one of his patients - thanks for sharing.

(Meeping up the Science!) #88

With Hashimoto’s and autoimmune issues you must eliminate dairy and gluten both, to determine if they give you trouble. Many of us (not all) with it have cross-issues from the dairy. Gluten creates an autoimmune response that destroys the thyroid, and dairy has a similar protein structure, alas.

Having said that, it is also more difficult, but not impossible!, to lose weight post-menopause. It will take time.

Reducing protein isn’t bad, but make sure your antibodies are well-controlled. Autoimmune inflammation is systemic, and affects the whole organism.

Good luck! <3

(beacheidi) #89

This is a great discussion. Can anyone give concrete examples of foods that allow you to lower your protein but are rich in fat? I believe I need to reduce my protein from around 70-90g a day but not sure how.

Thanks.

#90

Thanks for all the great info. I need to read up on the autoimmune disfunction creating havoc in my body. I kept some heavy cream for coffee because the casein is negligible, and hope I can keep aged cheddar, Parmesan reggiano, and Romano. But maybe it will all have to go. First and foremost I need to find a doc that tests more than tsh levels. The search is ongoing.

(Guardian of the bacon) #91

If you want to test your thyroid function, You can do this through an online testing service that contracts with a lab in your community. The drawback is you will have to pay out of pocket. I have an HSA card which helps as it is pretax money at least.

Here are a couple of lab services. There are more if you Google. You have to look around a bit for one that offers testing in your area. I had to drive about 35 miles for a lab which isn’t bad considering I’m 25 miles from a Walmart.

http://www.directlabs.com/

https://www.labcorp.com/wps/portal/services

(Meeping up the Science!) #92

Demand the tests. For Hashimoto’s you need to have T3 and other tests done routinely, anyway. That’s standard good practice. I get six thyroid tests done regularly. Do you see an endo or an ENT for the Hashimoto’s? You should, as they are more familiar with our situation. Izabella Wentz’s page has a list of good Hashimoto’s physicians.

#93

If I can’t find a competent pcp i will have to find a better endo. I’m looking for someone well versed in hypothyroid issues, not afraid of natural dessicated thyroid hormone therapy, iodine therapy, etc. I have an appt late March with a naturopath in Connecticut…about an hour from me, so unless I find some closer to me that can see me sooner I await my appt. I would rather try a good practitioner first, but if I find no one who can treat “the whole me” I might have to use a private lab. Thanks for the links…I’ve written them down :blush: