Keto ‘Myths’ ‘Debunked’

(TJ Borden) #62

That sounds like: “we know there are short term benefits of quitting smoking, but we’re concerned about the long term risks associated with nicotine withdrawal.”

The fact is, it’s popular rhetoric to say “we just don’t know” to discourage people from following a ketogenic lifestyle, even though no one can produce any evidence or examples of whatever it is they’re afraid of.

We do, however, know what the long term effects of T2D are. So I’ll take my chances with the imagined dangers perceived by a vegan trying to come to terms with the idea that he may have got it all wrong, and focus on the fact that whatever it is that takes me out of this world, it likely won’t be: diabetes, heart disease/attack, or cancer.

My money is on getting hit by a bus while crossing the street, not paying attention because I’m checking topics on this forum.

#63

Is Dr. Kahambatta a vegan? Surely, it is OK if he is, as he is just expressing some personal philosophies about animal ethics that help him chart his own lifestyle?

We all have vegan friends, don’t we? Someone to discuss diet and nutrition with.

i can’t find a reference to him being vegan. Most of the promotional stuff online talks about a plant based whole foods approach, which sounds pretty healthy.

I don’t think he got it all wrong. He probably gets monosaturated fats and low glycemic vegetables into his diet. He just has a different approach to trying to improve the standard level of healthcare via nutrition. He’s probably closer to being ketogenic, so to speak, in presenting his alternative to main stream nutritional advice.

(TJ Borden) #64

I couldn’t care less about the approach he chooses for himself. So long as he doesn’t discourage others from doing what works for them based on his “opinion” with zero data to back it up, which is exactly what he’s doing.

I do have vegan friends. In fact I took ribs to a bbq this past weekend where about half the attendees are vegan or vegetarian, which meant plenty of ribs for me. According to them I should be dead already. A couple actually got mad when I mentioned I’m actually mostly carnivore and eat very few veggies anymore.

I told them we should get along great. They can have my veggies, and I’ll eat their ribs and bacon. The difference was I wasn’t telling them they’re killing themselves by eating the way they do. Partly because I don’t believe they are and partly because I don’t have any evidence to suggest that’s the case. But plant pushers are constantly attacking the keto community without any actual science or examples to back up their claims, and yes, there are vegetarian and vegan ketoers, but I think it’s safe to say that on the whole, animal based products are a major part of the average ketogenic menu.

#65

Dr. Khambatta appears to have an engineering degree from Stanford University and a Nutritional Biochemistry PhD from the University of California.

We would be mistaken to think he was a medical doctor.

#66

Again you are right in the safety of the ketogenic forums.

I eat less meat on a ketogenic diet than I did on the standard diet on which I became ill. These days I know where my protein is coming from and I can go head-to-head in an animal ethics and climate change debate with my vegan and vegetarian friends.

Yes, the risk is that his presentation turns an unwell person away from ketogenic eating when that person could benefit. But if that person takes up low fat, whole foods eating they may improve their health, anyway. The risk is that the unwell person may not do anything to change, as you say.

i wonder how many ketogenic eaters would be willing to try Dr. Khambatta’s method for increasing insulin sensitivity? It seems to include mangoes, which are delicious to some. Are we not as hypocritical as Dr. K seems to be, if we just stick to ketogenic eating?

It could be interesting to check what our biomarkers (HbA1c and C reactive protein, especially) would do after an adequate period of transition. I’ve been keto for over 3 years, so I reckon my ability to adapt has improved since starting out overweight and prediabetic. It’s a new frontier? Is it? I think Paleo eaters talk about switching fuels and the healthiness of an increased ability to do so?

Where is the Devil’s Avocado emoticon?

(TJ Borden) #67

No, because there are hundreds of people within this forum that have reversed T2D as well as countless other diseases and conditions. Within the topics of the forum we also have science to back it up.

Plus, I’m not telling him what he’s doing is dangerous.

Now, if I were coming on here and saying “a plant based diet will kill you”, without science, data, or examples to back it up, THEN maybe one could make a case for hypocrisy.

I don’t believe veggies are unhealthy, but I do belive they are unnecessary, and I base that on my own experience of nearly eliminating them from my own diet.

If eating mangos works for you, go for it. But for me, as many others, when trying to lower insulin resistance, it seems to work better by not eating foods that are going to result in an insulin spike.

It also seems that many veggie based low carb diets tend to be calorie restrictive. While that MAY help with insulin resistance, it can also slow your metabolism which will make it very difficult to lose weight, and more importantly, to keep it off, if that is your goal.

(TJ Borden) #68

I think once someone has successfully reset their metabolism, paleo would be a great maintenance way of eating. Although if I get to that point it will be more like Paleo with dairy, or keto with a wider selection of veggies and fruits… probably just need to come me up with a new name.

(Rob) #69

Exactly. Some of his basic science is demonstrably wrong (making a mockery of his qualifications), he traffics in Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt (automatic argument fail), and he is actively trying to stop others from doing what they want.
He is not trying to win on the merits of his chosen WoE, he is making up crap to discredit a successful WoE that he cannot personally accept.

It is well known that this works and reverses T2 Diabetes (see the Kempner Rice Diet - basically rice and sugar). I don’t see baldy pushing that proven solution. The science is emerging but what seems to be the case is that carbs in the almost absolute absence of fat (and v low protein) can make you healthy as can a ketogenic diet (high fat in the almost absence of carbs). Knowing that a vastly harder, more restrictive and unpleasant but entirely opposite WoE exists IN NO WAY invalidates keto or requires us to give it a moment’s notice. Our metabolic engine is a wonderful thing and can run on 2 almost opposite fuel sources. What it apparently doesn’t inherently appreciate is “balanced” macros or plant-based approaches per se (unless they adhere to the extreme macros).

It’s fine to be the devil’s advocate when things are equivocal but its easy to become the ouroboros…

(Dan Dan) #70

No one has any problems with an honest and intellectual argument. :thinking:
Its the dishonest propaganda and shaming if you don’t agree subtext that infuriates. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

#71

Yup, I agree that lowered fat in the presence of increasing carbs potentially causes the most health problems.

I agree that the ketogenic diet is valid in spite of very low fat diets also showing health benefits. It’s the health benefits that bring them together, rather than make them opposed.

Of course it requires us to give it some notice. It allows another path of investigation. Especially for those who are unable to find benefits from ketogenic eating. Or for those who may have followed the ketogenic way of eating for a number of years but start discovering that it does not work as well as it once did.

We see keto health ‘plateaus’ and people start adjusting, including fasting, all the macro nutrients to keep on a healthy path.

The option to try a whole food, very low fat, plant based diet should not be discarded because it is tainted by politics or zealotry.

#72

I’ll pop cannibalism in the search to see if any one has gone there yet.

Whoa! That was interesting.

(Dan Dan) #73

I think you are confused no one here says Keto is the only way but only object at the Ideal that keto is not a legitimate diet and/or if their is any complication it should be abandoned for a mainstream diet.

This community has come together to share personal experience to help others successfully navigate a ketogenic way of eating.

We are not obligated to offer alternatives to Keto or even consider one :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

(Richard Morris) #74

That was at the Gold Coast that John measured me, but I interviewed him in Perth.

This is how I looked

You can compare me with Naomi

And with Troy

Yes you can’t judge a book by it’s cover.

(Daniel Winter) #75

The guy has a business that is for serving the diabetic community. Keto is his competition, so it is hard to believe anything he is saying is fully objective and out of concern for people trying keto.

#76

All 3 of you look healthy.

#77

We have established that the speaker has an agenda and a medical condition (and now a public persona reputation and an online business) that drives his beliefs and the way he interprets the science. Just like many of us in the ketogenic community; medical condition > find a way to better health = keto or low carb > that becomes our lens through which we view nutritional health. So at that level, at least, we are compatriots with Dr. Khambatta.

With that in mind, I am interested in the claim in the video that intracellular fat causes insulin resistance. Suggesting dietary fat being guilty by word association. Rather than persistent high blood glucose and accompanying hyperinsulinaemia.

Am I being carb(concerned)centric?

My limited understanding is that excess free fatty acids AND glucose in the system combine to create triglcerides that fill up the the adipose tissue storage. Then because the insulin remains high in circulation the body remains in in energy storage mode partitioning glucose and free fatty acids into cells including in body tissues where fat should not accumulate: liver, pancreas. All this happens BEFORE the cells are over full of fat and become resistant to normal amounts of insulin signaling. Is Dr. K just choosing a different stage of a disease process on which to blame insulin resistance? Is he retrofitting some real physiological effect but taking it out of context to fit an agenda?

(Dan Dan) #78

Nope, ‘my way of eating is a tool’ I use for better health and enjoyment ‘its not my religion’ :thinking: