Keto haters - what to say to them?

[RobC]

Hate to break it to you - any way of eating is going to kill you.
Fasting is fastest - all others just take a bit longer.

[Farback]

Been dead. MI with two restarts. Don’t recommend it.

[clackley]

I think PaulL said it very well. Being a sugar/carb addict is real whether the science agrees with the notion or not. Although there is evidence that sugar pings all the same brain reactions that some drugs do.

[Anniegirl9]

I think I’m just going to start telling people I’m getting ready for the zombie apocalypse by preparing my body to burn fat first.

That reminds me. There was an ad for a 24 hour gym sometime back that got a lot flack. It had aliens on it and the caption read, They’ll eat the fat ones first. Maybe the aliens were Keto too.

[OldDoug]

That’s why this way of eating is unsustainable and will kill us, lol!

I’m still torn between the desire for a snappy comeback, something that would just shut the other person down, and a longer discussion. If the other person is a true “hater,” that is one thing and maybe there’s really no getting around that. Responding in kind is aggressive and confrontational, and in the end seems fairly pointless to me.

I’ve never talked to anybody that I’d say is really a true hater. Ironically, my wife is the one who has the most resistance to ketogenic eating - she’s long-steeped in the “anti-fat” lore, etc. She’s coming around though - she was impressed that I’d changed my position on “calories in, calories out,” for one thing.

It is the sustainability of keto that makes most of the difference, for me. Quite a few diets over the years, and usually after 4 days or so I’d be quitting in digust, full of tormented cravings, a hellacious rebound-binge coming over the horizon. There would be NO WAY I’d try that diet again.

Now, even after going off of strict keto, it’s easy to go back, and I’m glad to do it - I feel better fast. No other way of eating has been anything like this for me.

If the other person is willing to be open and intellectually honest, then the very high failure rates of other diets is on the table, and the unsustainability of most of them, for most people, in the long run. Once you’re talking about all the hormonal effects, if they’re still with you then something has been achieved, at the least.

[PaulL]

Well put, Doug! Calorie restriction is what has always prevented me from dieting in the past. I have a real issue with going hungry—just can’t do it. Eating to satiety is what makes keto possible for me. And I don’t care if it shortens my life, actually, because I will have enjoyed what time is given to me far more on keto than on any other way of eating.

[Daves_Not_Here]

Forgive me if I’ve made this point in earlier posts – we do ourselves a disservice when we say things to normies like “calories don’t matter”. Amongst us Ketonians, we know that that means the CW about CICO is oversimplified and inactionable as it does not acknowledge the interdependence of CI and CO. But, said to a SADist, such a statement consigns us to the loony bin. The opposite of persuasive.

[Janie]

Here’s a youtube vid from a doctor telling you how to avoid stepping on the delicate feelings of your physicians about keto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCvKj-4MAvs

Pfffftttt… doctors aren’t the boss of you… they can’t make you take their scripts … nor can they make you take their advice!

Sorry… but I was raised by a Mom who thought most doctors had everything wrong about healing the body so I am biased.

[Screenack]

Sorry… but I was raised by a Mom who thought most doctors had everything wrong about healing the body so I am biased.

I’m alive today, thanks to western medicine. Don’t throw the doctor out with the sugar-water.

[Regina]

I agree, most doctors overprescribe, and over-test. Many patients are guilty as well, coming in to get this or that medication. But, my life was also saved by western medicine. 12 years ago I found out I had a huge atrial septal defect, which got repaired. The doctor said I was a few months away from a stroke.

[Jazzer40]

Need one of these!!!

[kib]

My overall feeling is that western medicine has become very good at diagnosing and dealing with crisis situations that can be fixed with surgery or antibiotics - or at least has made great strides with this, but if anything, has promoted chronic disease via poor advice and poorer medications that keep people from outright dying and then keep them paying customers for life .

[Regina]

Totally agree! Though antibiotics have been over prescribed to the point of crisis.

[PaulL]

And a godawful percentage of surgical operations are unnecessary, according to some studies, yikes!

[Daves_Not_Here]

(Western Medicine) … has promoted chronic disease via poor advice and poorer medications that keep people from outright dying and then keep them paying customers for life .

@kib karen - agreed. i don’t think it’s an intentional conspiracy, but institutions naturally evolve and grow by acting in their own interests, and not necessarily in the interests of their clients. And in healthcare, those receiving services (patients) are not the direct payers (employers and insurers), so the institution is even less accountable. Healthy patients = no revenue. Sick patients = revenue.

My opinion is the healthcare system has evolved to deplete chronically ill patients of their life’s savings, after which services are withdrawn.

[misterbutters]

A depressing but thoroughly plausible thought. Another drop in my already very deep lake of cynicism.

[Alecmcq]

On the positive side… I leaned about kale chips from her and now make them all the time when I have fresh kale from my garden. With siracha sauce. Yum.

How do you make kale chips taste not bitter… I have always failed. I am growing my own kale, and I hope that will make a difference, but I am skeptical. Any tips?

[Alecmcq]

And a godawful percentage of surgical operations are unnecessary, according to some studies, yikes!

I have a rule: avoid doctors and hospitals like the plague. Hospitals have got to be the most unhealthy places imaginable. Full of people who think they know what they are doing.

[Alecmcq]

Forgive me if I’ve made this point in earlier posts – we do ourselves a disservice when we say things to normies like “calories don’t matter”. Amongst us Ketonians, we know that that means the CW about CICO is oversimplified and inactionable as it does not acknowledge the interdependence of CI and CO. But, said to a SADist, such a statement consigns us to the loony bin. The opposite of persuasive.

Dave
You are spot on here. Everyone KNOWS that CICO is correct, a thermodynamic law that cannot be broken, so if you say it is not true, you are setting yourself up for a difficult discussion with a non-ketoer.

This is why I prefer to say: “Of course, CICO is correct. The problem is that is is not helpful. Studies have clearly shown that reducing calorie intake and increasing calorie burning does not succeed over the long term due to the body regulating its use of calories downwards. Studies have shown that increasing calorie intake, combined with eating the right foods, has actually been very successful in allowing people to reduce their bodyfat. How? Because the control of insulin allows the body to burn fat, both what you eat and what’s on your body. And the body loves eating fat when it gets used to it.” This explanation leads to some interesting discussions about hormones and the links between CI and CO, and the fact that reducing CI leads to inevitable drops in CO. This discussion alone (CI and CO are linked) is worth its weight in gold. There is often a dawning realisation in people that having a fixed CO actually doesn’t make that much sense.

[Brenda]

What do you all say to the haters?

To tell you the truth I don’t have the energy to convince them. I would just stop talking to them about it. I maybe just share your exercise stuff with them but don’t share any more of your keto stuff with them. Again it’s not my job to convince everybody about keto and I frankly don’t have the time or energy.