Keto diet issues- Environmentally unsustainable? Too expensive?

(Peter Barney) #41

A bit of a silly article really. Ag science has been on a similar path to medical science and human health, wrong paths have been taken an big companies have refused to turn around. A lot of growers are now starting to
understand their soils and grow much higher quality produce. The Keto WOE is no more impactful on sustainability than any other it all comes back to the individual making informed food choices. A good article on the changing understanding of soils

(Pye) #42

Just read tweet that people are smuggling ‘soil’ out of Iran !

No details on the story yet!

(jilliangordona) #43

Farmers can plant cover crops and replace nutrients in the soil using manure and/or synthetic fertilizers. That article makes it seem like farmers onto take take take

(G. Andrew Duthie) #44

Would like to call on everyone to please try to minimize the use of pejoratives and challenging individuals, rather than ideas. We have a very civil group here, so far, and it would be great to keep it that way.

Please try to address ideas and offer positive alternatives, rather than criticize or respond negatively.

Thanks for keeping things civil!

(Guardian of the bacon) #45

Nobody cares more about the soil than the farmer, It is his livelyhood.

Compaction Obviously soil that is farmed and traveled over is going to be move compacted than lush gardens in a city that have not seen heavy motorized traffic in eons. Farmers have methods for controlling compaction and yields have continued to increase over the past many decades. Apparently not a big issue.

Nitrogen Levels Nitrogen is a very fickle macro nutrient in the soil profile. It leaches down with heavy rainfall, It converts to Ammonia and vaporizes into the air in high temperatures. Soil Temperature swings of just 10 degree can play a major role in soil nitrogen availability. The soil doesn’t store N very effectively. N is one of the largest commercial fertilizer components. The atmosphere is 82% N Lots of N everywhere you look.

Carbon The soil is a very effective storage receptacle for carbon. Tillage does release some carbon into the air. Modern agriculture has made huge strides towards utilizing minimal to no-til practices. It is just common sense that undisturbed parks and gardens are going to have higher carbon levels than agricultural land. Don’t worry…there is enough carbon in the soils for eons to come.

Nitrogen to carbon ratio I don’t even know how to address this. In my 40 some years of being involved in production agriculture it is not a term I have ever once heard used or addressed.

@devhammer I apologize for being rash…It just really raises my hackle when production agriculture is constantly portrayed as the evil doer. It’s a royal bitch to make a living farming. More should go walk a week in the farmers shoes to see what they see.

(Scott Shillady) #46

I work for a dairy farmer, with a herd of 3500. it is a completely sustainable farm. Many other dairy farmers are going under because of all of the regulations and the federally controlled prices. Farmboy certainly is a credential. Farmboys live this everyday. they love their land and love their animals. The farmboys I know are always trying to improve the quality of their land and livestack.

(Jenn W) #47

I’m in no way an expert. I am a novice but even I have taught myself about cover crops and tips and tricks to improve soil quality.
I’ve got myself four happy raised beds and a few years up my sleeve growing my own produce.
If you want to truly appreciate the food going into your system I suggest giving it a go and growing your own.
Honestly I believe that everyone should learn how to grow and prepare their own food. It’s becoming a lost art. Modern society relies too heavily on mass production for their needs. But that’s a whole other discussion!

Be kind to each other! This is the first thread I’ve seen that’s getting some finger wagging and hot collars happening. Remember we are all here as a community to make a difference.

(Paul Jaeger ) #48

I think that’s the point. 100 harvests at current process. Fear is effective at motivating change, but it is used WAY too much to sort it out from all the other voices trying to use it. Most people suffer from a generalized anxiety. I believe this is the source.

(Human) #49

I’ve always thought that the agricultural revolution was the only reason we’ve been able to reach the population levels that we have. If everyone went Keto there wouldn’t be enough food to go round. These are my personal thoughts and presumptions, nothing to back it up but I would be surprised if it weren’t true.

Interesting podcast about maize

(Amanda Jones) #50

Unfortunately, I think you are right. :cry:

(Genevieve Biggs) #51
(Brad) #52

Another odd study, would like to know who funded it

(Sue Turner) #53

I like to think a little outside the square. What would happen if we didn’t chose a keto diet? We would probably end up in and out of hospital having numerous tests for different diseases and then end up taking lots of drugs for life. That would be a big impost on the environment too.

#54

Prof Lanham is a hater of low carb diets. Debated Gary Taubes a few weeks ago on IQ Squared. It’s the same mumbo jumbo.

(Todd Allen) #55

Just bought local organic grass fed $1.99/lb beef liver and $2.25/lb beef cap fat. And we are self sufficient in eggs with a flock of free ranging hens in our backyard.

(Siobhan) #56

Consider this for # 1
A significant enough portion of the US decides to go keto, with a focus on the best quality food. Wheat and corn feels are severely reduced and corn is no longer subsidized. These fields are used for pasture raising cattle (meat and dairy both) and some corn and grain is kept for chicken raising.
The cows,now eating grass instead of grain release less methane (this is demonstratable). According to some theories methane is a “greenhouse gas” so less could be considered more environmentally friendly already.
People will also be eating less, and the average of meat consumption would stay pretty steady while consumption of other foods (cabbage etc) would drop. You could also add that in the future these could be grown hydroponically with vertical farms saving land as well if we want to talk 20 years from now.
Because processed food consumption would also drop not as much packaging and plastics would be needed which would reduce waste and landfill size (compare the waste from a package of meat to a box of cereal or cookies).
Because the cows are eating grasses instead of inflammatory grains they would also need less antibiotics as well.

So… lots of speculation there, but if enough people switched to keto or low carb there is a way it could be made environmentally friendly.

Oh and keto can be entirely local too all the ingredients can be locally sourced or sourced within the US - no palm oil, rice, quinoa, etc. The worst you get is chocolate and cocoa butter and coconut oil but these would mostly be in lower demand or can be replaced with local source options (butter) if necessary for the higher demand items. So that’s less transportation waste too.

as for number 2 I’ll echo that our food cost has dropped too by about 50 dollars per week.

edit: Also for the truly poor there are keto options too. Butter, ground beef, whole chicken, farmers markets or community growing gardens, eggs, and if we switched food stamps to cover REAL FOOD instead of garbage it could help a lot. Someone I know is on food stamps and wants to eat healthy but the food stamps are all carbs carbs carbs. Not helpful at the moment.

You would need to go without coconut and almond flour, coconut oil, use coupons, find sales… but it is doable - making your food is almost always cheaper than buying it premade. You could also argue the time factor… but there are plenty of 5 to 10 minute keto meals too.

And for those saying “eating more meat would ruin us” we wouldn’t be eating more. Protein requirements for SAD and keto are pretty much the same. Its the intake of everything else that drops or is replaced.

edit 2: also if we started eating head to tail again this would also reduce the number of cattle needed as we would be reducing waste

(Steve Stephenson) #57

has a new exciting initiative (esp for zero carbers):

Be sure to watch the second video, The Story of Meat.
Also The Story of Wool,The Story of Leather, and The Story of Dairy,

About the Zero Carb / Carnivore category
#58

where is the second video?

Thank you for posting this, by the way. Really interesting!

(Steve Stephenson) #59

presented at Low Carb USA 2016 in San Diego, CA. His presentation is on Diet Doctor (membership pages are free for first 30 days):

(Steve Stephenson) #60

I added the link.