Keto diet issues- Environmentally unsustainable? Too expensive?


(jilliangordona) #1

Hellooooooo fellow ketonians!

Perhaps I am poking the bear, however there are two things that I have thought about quite a bit ever since starting this diet that I would like to discuss.

Background: I teach Agricultural Science at the high school level, so some of things relate heavily to the things I personally teach in my classroom.

  1. Is the keto diet sustainable for our environment?

  2. Is the keto diet too expensive to be helpful for lower-income populations, who take up a large portion of the diabetic population?

Interested to see everyone’s thoughts and responses. I have some of my own, but first I’d like to see some discussion!

ETA: Please include sources with your claims!!


(melinda) #2

Point 1:

Is our current diet sustainable? No.

By eating keto, we stop eating wheat/corn/etc that has almost no nutritional value, robs the soil of nutrients, is sprayed with pesticides, over watered, then harvested, ground up somewhere, shipped somewhere else to be made into something palatable, then wrapped in plastic and boxed in cardboard, and put on the shelf to add to millions of people’s obesity & illnesses. Not to mention food waste when half of it goes stale and gets thrown out.

Which is worse, a pound of grassfed beef or a box of crackers?

Point 2: You eat a lot less on keto, so that’s already cutting out $$$. I think the start up can be expensive, but after that it’s not. Eggs are dirt cheap, so fill up on those. Add butter, chicken legs & thighs (often on sale for well under $1/lb), and a few other things when they’re on sale. Personally, I think this should be considered preventative medicine, but I’m not in charge.

Plus, the only reason junk food is so cheap is because it’s subsidized. Corn, etc, is subsidized by the government even though it’s horrible for everyone involved. Subsidize healthy food instead & see what happens.


(Jessica K) #3

Is it environmentally friendly/sustainable? Probably not. It isn’t nearly as cheap as filling up on nutrionless carbs and grains. Personally, I try to eat the most high quality meat and dairy I possibly can but I know that isn’t enough. The meat industry is expensive and sucks up a lot of our resources.

Is it too expensive? I don’t think so. There are plenty of resources out there for eating a keto diet on the cheap. For me, I have managed to keep within the same grocery budget I had previously because A- I eat SO much less than I did before, and B- You don’t need the “fancy stuff” to maintain the diet. Eggs, chicken, butter, cheese, frozen veggies… that’s a pretty good start.


#4

I am spending less as there are whole sectors of food that i no longer need to consider like bread, cereal, fruit, cake and alcohol. In fact limiting my picks to meat, eggs n cheese, saves time and money and i am full for longer. I eat only when hungry which currently means once daily. I bulk cook twice weekly so saving on the gas bill as well.

There will be a blow out on my new wardrobe but like my diet, i will choose simple quality timeless items bucking the trends all the way.


(Kerri Hines) #5

I’m spending less too. I can’t afford the grassfed meats so I don’t buy them. Since I eat less overall, I’m certainly spending less.


(Trisha) #6

We are spending a lot less on groceries. And, hubby doesn’t have to take out the trash as often. Sorry, I don’t have any scientific evidence, just personal experience.


(G. Andrew Duthie) #7

For number 2, I’ll leave it to the Dudes:

As for number 1, given that carbs are unsustainable for the environment of my body, I don’t have an alternative. Keto keeps me healthier, so it’s how I eat. End of story.


(Texan ) #8

Can you put a price on your health?
You can either pay the farmer or you can pay the physician.


(jilliangordona) #9

I just do not see it as that simple for those in poverty. What if you can’t pay either? You get your hands on what you can. strong text


#10
  1. yes, keto is environmentally sustainable. In fact, the SAD diet is environmentally destructive and has been causing severe soil erosion. The problem is so advanced that the Whitehouse (Obama administration) Just this month announced new steps to help protect soil sustainability. Here’s an excerpt of the current rate of destruction of soil under today’s SAD diet regime that is promoted in the US as the proper way of eating (ie low fat and high in grains): "In the United States, soil on cultivated cropland is being eroded at an estimated rate of 5.2 tons per acre per year, while the rate of soil formation averages approximately 0.5 tons per acre per year. In some parts of the Midwest soil erosion rates are double the national average, and extreme weather events can erode significant quantities of agricultural soil—in some states, erosion has been measured at over 100 tons per acre in a single storm. That means that a layer of soil that took over 350 years to form can be destroyed in one day.

Climate change is expected to increase pressure on soil as the frequency of extreme weather events increases, bringing more erosive rain which can accelerate soil loss."

Here’s the whitehouse recent news release: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/12/05/fact-sheet-obama-administration-announces-new-steps-advance-soil

The SAD diet is not environmentally sustainable at all because of the high usage of mono crops. Like thousands of acres of corn or soybean. This creates environmental devastation. How the heck can the environment cope with that? Like bees for example.

Examples of how keto WOE can improve sustainability is Dr Peter Batterstedt, he has given several talks on the science, like the ancestral diet symposium. His expertise is in agricultural science and he presents arguments for pastured animals and how the agriculture in that practice is more sustainable. http://grassbasedhealth.blogspot.ca

Another good example of sustainability improved with foraging animals is presented by Allan Savory. He has recovered land destroyed with pastured animals and shows the science behind it. He has a fantastic TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change

  1. keto WOE is less expensive than the SAD diet. There’s a lot of farmer subsidies (and other subsidies like food stamps) that cause grain mono crops to look cheap. Guess what folks…you are paying the farmers to grow grain with your taxes…how about that…are you happy with that? Don’t you want your tax money back so that you can buy the food you want to eat? Also, I have often looked at the price of SAD diet food and compared to real food…and usually the SAD diet food is more expensive. For example, if you compare SAD diet turkey sandwich (margarine spread, mustard, low fat American style cheese, lettuce) with two oatmeal cookies and a glass of soda, to keto WOE with ground beef steak fried in butter, with a side of green veg fried in butter, a piece of full fat cheese and a glass of water. Also, in a couple of hours with the SAD diet, I will need a snack (like a container of yogurt or more cookies) while the keto diet keeps me satisfied until the next meal without snacking. I have saved money eating the keto way…even though it was not my intention to do so, it was a very nice by-product of the new WOE.

(Guardian of the bacon) #11

I’ve been involved is agriculture is some way or another for over 50 years. At one time farming over 5000 acres with my father. I’m speaking from my experience not from any particular information source.

Farmers are often villified, while in reality most farmers are in fact family men just trying to make a living for their family. They make business decisions based on what opportunities the market presents to them. Most of these market parameters are set by the government. The government decides what they intend to subsidize and that ends to be where the money flows.

There is a place for large scale production crop agriculture for fiber and energy sources.

Sustainability. Pasture raised livestock is actually a renovating process for the soil. The animals naturally refertilize the soil. Insect and microbial action break down wastes into nutrients the plants can utilize. The animals hoofs incorporate these nutrients into the soil. There are millions upon millions of acres that are underutilized in this country that could be used for hay and grass production.

Pasture raised livestock takes more time to bring to market, takes controlling more acres, is more costly under todays market conditions. It’s all about supply and demand. increase the demand and the market will figure a way to supply the product.

Affordability. There are many many options for affordable animal proteins and fats. They are not currently from the most nutritionally optimal pasture raised sources but if the government chose to “back a different horse” so to say that could change in a heartbeat.

If I had a say. Use the largest most wide open tracts of land for commercial crop production to provide necessary fibers and fuel sources. Convert everything else to open range for Livestock production. This would likely require moving back to smaller localized production as intensive grazing is very management intensive. The animals need to be moved often to efficiently use resources.

I’m not a writer, hope my thoughts weren’t too scattered to get my message across.

Eat Well


(L. Amber O'Hearn) #12
  1. I suspect it is sustainable, if we would start using the land that’s grazable. Herd animals belong here! There are many books and resources about this that I’m learning from. Here’s an article I liked:

http://sustainabledish.com/meat-is-magnificent/

  1. Irrelevant. That’s like asking if clean water is too expensive for poor people. It’s got to be the goal.

(Genevieve Biggs) #13

I’ve seen various articles on why meat is sustainable. I can’t find one I’m thinking of, but here’s Lierre Keith on why plant-based diets are not the answer for sustainability:

http://www.lierrekeith.com/book-ex_the-vegetarian-myth.php


(Texan ) #14

I guess maybe I’ve never really met anyone who couldn’t.
I work with children that receive free lunch, but come in with the latest Jordans. They’re on free lunch, but bring money for chips, ice cream, and cookies. My feeling about that is, you have money for the things you want to have money for. I don’t have money to pay for my lunch, but I do for the latest shoes.
I’ve never encountered people who couldn’t. I have met people that just wouldn’t.


(Ross Daniel) #15
  1. Yes, for the most part. As far as sources, I have none that I’ve researched, but just doing the math (I’m an engineer) and doing some quick google foo, a typical cow yields 500lbs of boneless trimmed meat after slaughter. If I eat beef for a full year, I could consume almost a pound and a half of beef daily and I’ve only killed the equivalent of 1 cow. Cows are essential to grassland preservation, and they “take up less room” than a large patch of the equivalent nutrition in vegetables, I see this as being sustainable. The land used for growing corn and wheat be transformed into grasslands for cattle. The whole corn to ethanol plan and e85 was and still is a terrible idea, so we could abandon that…the list goes on. But as I said, yes, I think it is sustainable with some minor tweaks.

  2. We like to tout not eating processed foods and what not, because, let’s face it, there are better options… albeit more expensive ones typically. Keto is not restrictive in the same sense as say a paleo/whole30 type diet is where “Clean eating” is king. You can be keto and eat nothing but processed, cheap crap, like hot dogs, potted meat and what not… but at the end of the day it is better than being diabetic and losing a limb and/or getting CVD.

Of course, if at all possible I would try and eat whole, clean foods. But if for some reason I couldn’t afford it or lived in a “food desert” that limited my options, I would make due. Problem is, getting the word out and educating the people in need who are impoverished. They most likely are not listening to podcasts. It really needs to be a grassroots movement to get the needle to move in the right direction, so at least basic knowledge of PROPER nutrition can begin to circulate.


(melinda) #16

You do, but there are cheap keto foods- the things I mentioned previously. When you’re not buying chips, bread, peanut butter, soda, potatoes, etc etc, you can afford more.

There are some people who truly, truly can’t afford keto because they’re barely able to afford food. I do know people like this, and they DON’T walk around in new Jordans.

This is why we need to be subsidizing actually healthy food and not crap like corn and wheat.


#17

@melindotty, or how about not subsidizing farmers at all and let the wisdom of crowds form the real food economy?


(jilliangordona) #18

Subsidies aren’t just designed to help farmers in poor markets, they’re also there to prevent economic ruin from natural disasters.

So in this context, it would be offering more insurance for cattle farmers who lose animals due to a massive blizzard in Iowa, and less/none to crop farmers.


(Guardian of the bacon) #19

Lot of factors involved here


(Tom Seest) #20

I grew up as one of those people that got lunch assistance in school. And, I wore Steel Toed work boots to school, and got made fun of for it on a regular basis, because my parents didn’t have money. And, we didn’t have TV, drive fancy cars, etc.

Generalizations are dangerous things. Yes, many people take advantage of hand outs. So do many corporations.

But, not all do…