Keto Didn't Work for Me - (Semi) Carnivore Does!

#22

Many of us realized we need to be stricter. Keto never worked for me either (it was vegetarian keto with a generous amount of net carbs but it was keto for me and I liked it but it didn’t solve much more problems than my simple low-carb) but almost carnivore is a new, much better world. Carnivore-ish? Sounds better, yes, maybe I will use that too :slight_smile: Even on/off carnivore-ish (with very little meat lately, that’s one big reason I don’t do it all the time) is way better than my old keto and I know it’s about the carbs in plants I don’t eat now. As you, I kept some vegetables but it’s some flavoring in my meat or egg dishes or a slice of cucumber or two, very minimal and it causes no problems for me. These things are individual. If you find a better woe? Great. If you can’t do it properly yet but maybe you don’t even need it? No problem, whatever floats your boat!
Cheese is perfectly fine on my woe (and I consider it totally carnivore… but it might be not important, it’s my not carnivore woe), my eggs contain WAY more carbs then my (usually lactose free but not always) cheese. I even eat cream but I need to be careful with it as it’s carby and it does cause problems in bigger amounts. For me, I mean, it works for so many people… It’s perfectly fine, I don’t want to eat much dairy but a tiny amount is very nice sometimes.

Sick of meat :smiley: I can relate, I started to eat meat more often than monthly in December or something…? And I don’t like beef and only could get that fresh first… But there were always some other options (even cheap or canned fish helped me out sometimes and I am not into that either) and we can change. I can even handle a (not complete, I never do that again) lack of meat way better nowadays. We talked about this in a carnivore topic so I know it’s not unusual to find our food way more tempting even though it’s more restricted than before. I had that even before I could add a significant amount of meat (maybe it was zero, I don’t remember). I almost completely stopped eating vegetables and oily seeds and my animal food became more interesting (it was boring before, sometimes), it was surreal. But of course, I needed meat for nutrition and variety and joy… So all parts are important. Not eating (much) plants (and lactose) and eating meat. It’s a very good combo for many of us. But still, some people do it with more protein, more fat, more restriction… Find your own style, that’s good. And you may change it more later.

So I can relate to your points a lot though I started with stricter carnivore first (for a very very short time. I couldn’t handle much fat without veggies and I even needed mustard) and relaxed my ways when it seemed it won’t be just a week and that’s it… I like to experiment and I had to, anyway. I am learning where my limits are but if I lived alone, I probably wouldn’t buy any vegetables except maybe pickles now and then. But I eat them in tiny amounts and not every day anyway. And I was a HUGE veggie lower (I still don’t know how vegetarian ketoers below 20g net carbs do it. I had 40g and it was super little vegetables all the time. I simply couldn’t go significantly lower before my carnivore trials). Not anymore, I guess. Good meat is tasty too but satiating and doesn’t mess with my body and mind like all net carbs seem to do.

(ParisianDr) #23

Hello,

Thanks for sharing Your experience. I’am on Keto for 3 years for migraines and sometimes I have some kind of “carnivore days”. I feel very great when i’am on carnivore but I quit the day after because for me it’s a little bit boring on a long run. Do you have any tips to make it less boring?
I have another question (maybe stupid…): How do You get vitamins on Carnivore (for ex. vitamin C)?

(Candy Lind) #24

Forgive my ignorance - what’s keto AF?

(Elizabeth ) #25

keto animal foods, it differs a little from carnivore on that it’s a much higher fat, regular carnivore doesn’t always guarantee you’re going to be in ketosis so keto AF aims for continual ketosis. But again only animal foods

(Charles) #26

Interesting, I recently learned that not all diets fit for all, but that the diet that works is the one that is adapted to the specific body.
I am glad you’ve found yours.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #27

The RDA is assuming Standard American Diet… But raw or rare meat has vitamin C, but nutritional information says zero because it doesn’t test, not because it isn’t there. And the evidence also strongly suggests that you don’t need as much if you aren’t eating carbs. People thrive (aka no scurvy) for literally decades. So apparently vitamin C isn’t an issue. The scientists who were reaserching scurvy originally thought meat was the answer. But fortified grains are a heck of a lot cheaper to give people we don’t actually care about.

If you are trying to keep your factory, navy, or plantation open, then cereal is a better option than meat. Doesn’t mean it is the best option.

#28

@ParisianDr You asked how you make the carnivore diet less boring which is a very interesting question. At first I was feeling bored on it, but I told myself that I was transitioning away from seeing food as entertainment to seeing food as nourishment. I did have to mourn giving up the idea of “food as fun.” But, I was REALLY done with all the food cravings and struggles with weight, so I felt like I was going to do whatever it took.

But then I funny thing happened - about 6 weeks in, my relationship to food started changing. I’m now finding myself feeling ravenously hungry when I sit down to a meal so I am really wanting the food - and then feeling equally nourished and satieted when I am done. I feel the way I imagine an animal would feel. When a lion starts in on a fresh kill, you don’t hear them saying, “Oh darn, antelope AGAIN!” No - they are hungry and have a strong desire to eat the food that is the correct food for their lion body.

So, I am starting to experience food a little more like that.

I’m wondering if this resonates with anyone else eating carnivore or carnivorish? It’s an odd feeling and I feel like I didn’t explain it very well, so I would love it if others would weigh in.

(bulkbiker) #29

Yes agree 100% food has stopped being "entertainment’ and is now a means of re-fuelling.
A completely liberating experience.
I can choose what and when to eat without hunger pangs or “temptation”, great isn’t it?

#30

Food always will be one of my most important enjoyment sources but I am a hedonist so it’s not surprising.

I am almost never hungry and extremely rarely more than slightly since fat adaptation so I don’t have that either… I can’t feel what an animal feel as I eat way before I could get really hungry. But maybe I can relate a bit. My hunger comes after my first bites, this urge really make eating easier and more satisfying. But it’s never very strong.

On carnivore, I immediately stop desiring sweets (I eat sweets very nearly every day on normal keto. even nowadays). I get Perfectly Satiated at a point, very quickly (instead of chasing the feeling for hours, sometimes) so my mind gets off from the topic of food. It’s amazing and a relief. It’s not so fun eating a ton all the time and not finding satisfaction easily. Even I don’t want to “enjoy” eating for too many hours a day…
And my food is best on carnivore too. Least boring as well even if it sounds odd. On carnivore, eating some eggs is amazing and pork is just out of this world… They are awesome anyway but better without the carbs messing with me.

I still eat whatever and whenever I want, basically… It’s just way more satisfying on carnivore and I feel better physically too. Due to I eat whatever I want and fancy and “is there” with my circumstances, I often go off carnivore - and I immediately wish to go back as it is way more hedonistic to me. My carnivore-ish days are the good, really enjoyable ones even if I am on a budget and can’t get proper fresh meat from the usual farm anyway. With ANY carnivore food? It would be total bliss, maybe too much for me! I wouldn’t do carnivore-ish all year (I have a lovely fruit garden and if my body doesn’t desire carby food, my mind occasionally find it an interesting idea) but staying very close to it most of the time is the best I can do if I want to enjoy my woe and its effect on my health, energy, well-being.

Sometimes eating is mostly refueling, though, it happens. I appreciate simple, effective methods then. Carnivore really shines there.

#31

I get this and until one commits to health ‘thru personal reasons’ and ‘feelings of true benefits from an eating plan if held strong’…then and only then does one understand the biggest changes a person can get.

but I get this thought cause I was years of ‘trying so damn hard’ to sub out carbs and make it ‘lc more friendly’…fighting years of cravings to keep my old foods I loved, who the heck doesn’t want just that? and other situations like holidays with old foods and old times.

but out of control? when one can’t do sugar? when one can’t do it simply and hold a ‘treat night’ and be fine way after? truth on what sugar does to the body? plant toxins making joints ache and our allergy symptoms from eating those toxins and accumulating in our bodies? So between science and true physical body of our personal selves we make a decision…one we either go there to fix our ‘what nots’ and one to change ourselves thru science based facts…ALL while navigating this ‘crap food processed fake’ food world and it is hard as hell for a lot of us :slight_smile: but once that decision is deep down and made for what we desire, those walling into a way more extreme lc/keto based protein/fat unprocessed menu works so well and we thrive doing just that…….if we ever make the real decision for change if we feel we need it.

many can’t go into extreme low carb…literally into ZC. Those that must and want…find it :slight_smile:

We all can find ‘delish food’ on any plan we choose, we just have to find the meaning of why we choose a plan, stay on plan and make it work as we desire and all the time learn from just that, or ignore just that, very personal for sure.

all that comes into play and wen walk a very personal path thru it all.

thing is basic science facts rein thru all the time, not one carb is needed for survival, yet we want them :slight_smile: and we don’t want a broccoli spear, we want mostly the crap LOL which is why we try to sub out all the crap food and the offered crap food is worse sometimes than eating the crap LOL

winning is hard. winning takes commitment to any and all science/plan facts we feel fits us.

(Cindi Olson) #32

You aren’t alone in this, Sophie. I love how I feel and how eating feels when I am doing meat/water only. Eating feels like eating, not like satisfying some boredom signal or chasing a food high. Eating is exciting when I’m eating bacon and eggs or a juicy ribeye.
I haven’t been able to stay carnivore for very long, however, because the less expensive cuts of meat and ground beef taste gross to me. I could eat a ribeye or NY steak twice a day, every day forever. Burger meat? Nope. Maybe once a week and even then I am choking it down. At this point in my life, finances don’t allow for daily steaks.
I’m in a similar height/weight range as you and in spite of what anyone else thinks based on those numbers, 135 lb at 5’5 (my height) is not ideal. With a bit less belly fat and a bit more muscle; 135 would be perfect…but I’m not there yet. So I am still aiming for 125 and carnivore gets me there…without hating life, ie., crave/eat/crave/cry :rofl:

#33

then do just that but one has to remember for all the health you gain you are not spending money on useless supps, ‘health boosters’ and not hitting the Dr for your little nags and hags that crap up your life. We gain so much being ZC and putting money into your mouth, worth cutting off the lights in all the rooms, worth hitting sales for all the crap you buy, every penny ya save, in my life…goes to my food :slight_smile:

So if we say no to that nice purse that we don’t need, or those fab shoes we want when we have 10 pairs at home to use all goes to our steaks we love…we win :slight_smile: hey I think of it like that for sure and when out and about, think that $49.99n on this thing will buy me a crapload of ribeyes HAHA, LOL, yea I think like that after many years on plan. My food comes first in my life cause my food is health and what is ever, truly ever, more important than whatever else? Yes I do think like this :slight_smile:

As usual in life, thru all challenges, what do we sacrifice for what we truly need and desire? I know this won’t work all the time but if we desire, we find a way hopefully!!

#34

@HappilyRVafter Wow, it sounds as if we are in very similiar positions re height/weight/body composition. I also agree with you about the taste of cheaper meats.

I have been trying to deal with it a couple of ways: 1) Right now I am alternating between steak nights and cheaper beef nights (roasts or burgers) to save money. 2) I’m trying to get better at cooking the cheaper meats to make them taste more palatable. If I come up with any successes I will share them! 3) I’ve decided that for now I’m going to spend more money on food than I wish to. It’s a strain on my budget but fortunately I am in a position to do it. I’ll see where that takes me. Maybe I will need to make changes long term, but right now I want to optimize CV and see what benefits it brings.

(Cindi Olson) #35

Here’s something that helps me when I can’t get a good ribeye; I like making carnivore “flat bread” with 8 oz. cooked chicken (chopped up fine in a food processor) mixed with 1/3 cup parmesan, garlic, salt, and an egg. Mix into a “dough” and roll out flat to < 1/4" thick. Baked at 400 for 10 - 15 min. until edges begin to brown. YUM!
Best of luck to you on your carnivor-ish WOE. You will find lots of support here on this forum!

#36

@HappilyRVafter Sounds good - thanks! Definitely looking to expand my options!

#37

Hey, just wanted to check in with a few updates. First, at least for now I’ve moved from carnivorish to true carnivore! That is, if you consider continuing to drink black tea with heavy cream not in violation. (My tea in the morning gives me true joy, so at least for now I have no desire to give it up.)

So, how I got to full carnivore: I had gotten down to about 133-134 lbs but seemed to be stalled there and was feeling frustrated. I felt pretty sure part of it was that I was eating too much cheese, which I was doing partly due to cravings and partly because it helped settle my stomach when taking a particular medication.

So I wanted something to change. I experimented for a few days with eating a good sized portion of veggies at dinner again, and even steel-cut oatmeal one day. To my great shock, I got short-lived but pretty severe abdominal pain when I ate the veggies or oatmeal! This had never been a problem before with veggies, but I had also never elimated them and then reintroduced them, so I had never really tested it.

The other thing that happened when I dabbled in veggies was - no surprise here - my sugar cravings got even stronger.

So, I decided - no veggies. Around the same time, and just by coincidence, I had run out of cheese and didn’t have time to go to the store, so I went off of cheese for about a week. And, I also decided to change my normal breakfast of bacon and scrambled eggs with sauerkraut to bacon and eggs over easy (I was adding the sauerkraut to the scrambled eggs mainly for flavor, as I find plain scrambled eggs bland).

OMG! I am feeling so much better on this revised WOE (no veggies or cheese). First, cravings for both sugar and cheese have diminished significantly. Second, my weight loss stall shifted, and I’ve now lost another two pounds. My body feels strong and light, and I feel clear headed.

Third, and this goes to the financial side of the carnivore diet, I am finding I am needing less food overall. Maybe this will change once I reach my weight loss goals, as I still have a lot of body fat and am probably living partly on that. But in recent days I’ve been eating a hearty first meal of the day (which I eat about 2pm) of 3 slices of bacon and 3 fried eggs, and this sustains me for a long time. Late in the evening I’ve been eating a bit of roast beef, but not a large meal. I also have the tea with heavy cream in the morning. So this is actually pretty inexpensive for me.

I’d love to hear updates from any others who are following this thread, especially @HappilyRVafter who sounds like she is in a similiar position to me.

(Elizabeth ) #38

I wish you well, but I honestly don’t expect to see you here 6 months from now. You’re not eating enough you’re putting yourself into a starvation situation you’re going to down regulate your hormones and your metabolism and it’s not going to be healthy. 95% of people who try to eat this way don’t make it to 6 months and the main reason is that they don’t eat enough and the main reason for that is they’re scared of gaining weight. Carnivore is not a weight loss diet and I’m sorry but I believe you’re setting yourself up for a longer term problem for a short-term goal.

#39

Whaaat?? Where did that come from? How in the world do you know I’m not eating enough?

I am eating to satiety as I have done since I started carnivorish. I have never been a calorie counter - just eat to satiety. I am just fine, thanks. What a bizarre and condescending statement.

(Elizabeth ) #40

You asked for advice and I’ve been moderating two carnivore groups with a combined 25,000 people in them for a couple of years now. The advice is to eat a pound and a half to 2 lb of meat a day. We never advised to count calories, but three eggs three slices of bacon and a bit of roast beef on the best day is going to be about 800 calories. That is a starvation diet. Again, I wish you well but I have seen every single person that eats like that disappear from the groups rather quickly. I’ve also read the comments from the 10 and 15 and 20 year veterans who have helped thousands over the years and they all say the same thing. Yes of course you’re going to lose weight eating like that, but are you going to continue to eat like that forever to keep the weight off? Probably not. People can lose weight on a cabbage soup diet but they always put it back on and more pounds come with it. One of the long-term carnivores in the group has been eating this way for 5 years she weighs 100 lb and eats between 3 and 5 lb of meat a day. Most people wind up between a pound and a half to 3 lbs. There’s no place else your body’s getting nutrition and it’s not just the calories it’s the amino acids the essential fatty acids the protein the nutrients and the fat that your body needs.

(Cindi Olson) #41

Hi Sophie! Glad to see you hanging in there and doing your own experimenting. Congrats on overcoming the sugar cravings! At first I had a similar thought as Elizabeth, that you are not eating enough. However, if I have learned one thing from this WOE and this forum, it is that we are all different. Our needs are all different, our bodies are all different. I don’t believe Elizabeth has bad intentions or means to come across as condescending–we all have difficulty accurately expressing ourselves with just the written word. My interpretation is that she has a lot of experience with carnivore and wants you to have a good experience too. I think she believes you are making a common carnivore newbie mistake…and you may very well be doing just that. MOST people need to eat 1.5 to 2 lb of meat a day on strict carnivore, and sometimes more especially when they need to heal. You may or may not need that much. I’m not as worried about you because of your statement, “In general my philosophy toward the whole thing is not to be too concerned about whether I am really truly doing the “correct” carnivore diet - clearly I am not being pure. My concern is how my body feels, whether I’m being bothered by food cravings, and of course weight loss/body composition. All these things seem to be going in the right direction for me so I am content for now - though I may make changes later, who knows.”
I think you have a healthy attitude and will likely be successful if you stick with that mindset and continue to listen to your body. You may find (or you may not) that adding in a bit more meat gives you benefits you hadn’t expected.
As for me, well, my current social and family situation is making it hard to go full carnivore. So I’ve got a little carb belly and I’m a little softer than I would like to be, but I feel good, joints good, my mood is fairly stable, and I’m sleeping well so not terribly motivated to change at this point. I’ll let you know if I decide to dive into the carnivore end of the pool again. :wink: Good luck and keto(AF) on!