Keto and Multi day stage race - looking for advice

(Dale) #1

Evening all,

I have been strictly Keto since 1 Jan and while weight loss and change in blood sugar levels have been ok, I am hoping some folk can comment on my exercise strategy.

So, MTB cycling is my passion. I’m a middle of the pack rider, not looking to win anything, this is about getting out into nature and getting some work/life balance.
Anyway, I am training for a 9 day 900km race at end April. I have done it before but as a carb burner.
My training since Christmas has been strictly low HR - as prescribed by Phil Maffetone - mainly on a stationary bike where it is easy to control HR. I assumed that I would become fat adapted by this stage but last week and again today I went for a longer ride in the mountains (90km last week and 70km today) and on both rides the results were very disappointing - fine for the first 3hrs then hit the wall big time … like needed to stop and recover. On both occasions I could then continue but slowly, so not like cramps where you are stuffed, just a complete lack of energy. I am not able to keep HR in the MAF zone for these rides, just too many steep hills.
All rides done on water only.
I believe that I am fat adapted as I have done 2x5 day fasts and felt 100% ok, not hungry and no Keto flu, but the results on the bike tell a different story. Keto readings (blood) have consistently been between 0.6 and 6.3 since 12 Jan (no readings before that).

I now don’t know if I should persist with my current strategy or do something different.

So, my questions are like this:

  1. how long should I expect to wait before some level of performance kicks in? Race is end April, so I do still have 6 weeks.
  2. Do I take some carbs for longer rides? or stick it out with water only for training rides?
  3. Any other comments on my ‘strategy’?
(Robert C) #2

I would add carbs back in on your rides.
It will not affect your fat-adaptation as they will be instantly burned off.
Remember that becoming fat-adapted is an advantage because you can easily/quickly switch fuel sources.

The other thing I heard recently on this subject (performance/endurance) is that you should practice taking carbs on your long practice runs just as you would at the event. You don’t want to just bring along extra carbs on race day as a backup because you might find out you have stomach issues or, if you take them too late (after cramps start and energy drops off), you might find out they do not kick in for another hour.

(Carl Keller) #3

Paging @tdseest

(The o-chem police are coming) #4

I’ve done some multi day Enduro MTB races as a low carb athlete. I’ve never tried full fat/ full keto for the races though. I find that some amount of carbs in the mix is helpful to me on bigger days. In the past I’ve gone with a strict Keto Diet before the race. Then some low glycemic carbs for breakfast and some, but limited carbs during the day. This has worked well.

For this year (haven’t gotten out for longer efforts due to winter) I’ll be trying some carb backloading. Meaning some carbs for dinner, like 20-50gm. No carbs for breakfast. Then some carbs during the day, but not enough to raise insulin and kill fat burning. I still want fat as the major energy source, but have a good supply of glycogen for intense efforts. I’ve been having good luck with the UCAN super starch this winter for this purpose. I’ll definitely keep experimenting with that going forward. I’ll also be experimenting with MCT powder/ electrolytes mix for a portable energy source. I find the powder to be more convenient and easier on the tummy than the oils.

Yes some people are able to do a full Iron Man on water and electrolytes. I believe that would take year-on-year low carb high intensity training to achieve that level of fat adaptation. I have not been able to achieve that. But it hasn’t been my goal. Living the keto life and mixing in some carbs in a low insulin state for race day seems to be my happy place.

I believe/ know that the 4 months of fat adaptation and fasting that you have done will greatly benefit you in the multi day race. But don’t get too hung up on being 100% fat powered. Figure out what works for you at your current fat adaptation level. And as per usual don’t experiment on race day.

Best wishes

(Dale) #5

Thank-you for the replies.

Seems like the consensus view is add some carbs. I have a tin of UCAN available so will try that this weekend (100km training ride planned) to see how it goes.
Anyone have a view on how many carbs to try to get in per hour?

(Scott) #6

Hi Dale

I am a runner and it took me three months of keto before I got my running energy back. Now I have no issues.

(The o-chem police are coming) #7

Carbs per hour? I think 10gm/hr is a good start place based on my experience. The UCAN bars have about 20gm. They seem to go a couple hours.

(Dale) #8

Thanks Scott,

Did you do anything special during this time in terms of HR? or just train on feel?

(Scott) #9

When I started I was doing the heart rate thing and trying to shave time. I got up to 35 miles a week and combined with strict calorie deficit lost 53 pounds. I then gained 30 back. I decided I just enjoy running and go out at 5 am and just run for fun. I found keto and have dropped 25 pounds. Now adapted I am trying to build miles for a stab at a full marathon in the future. After realizing keto was killing my running energy I had my doubts but stubbornly pushed through. It was a surreal moment when it hit me “I am not tired anymore”. From that point I never looked back.

(Dale) #10

Cheers, thanks for the advice.

(The o-chem police are coming) #11

Just wondering how the training rides are going?

(Dale) #12

So, did a longer ride this weekend and thought some feedback may be useful …

Firstly, thank you to all those who suggested a little carbs while riding, tried it and it made the world of difference.
Sunday’s ride was 110km (was actually an organized race but I decided to use it for training). I took 2 scoops of UCAN 30 min before the start, rode at a reasonable tempo for the first 2.5 hrs; HR in 130-145 range so probably limited fat burning in that range.
All felt fine. Good energy levels.
Then stopped for another 2 scoops of UCAN and upped the tempo a fair bit - not quite flat out, but hard enough to make the effort noticeable. HR 150-170.
Energy levels were good for the next 2hrs, on one hill I started to feel a little low but just reduced the intensity for 10min and energy seemed to come back. Maybe I was just burning carbs faster than the UCAN was being absorbed??
Total ride time 4h50 with 1200m climbing on a MTB.

The only negative effect was a light headed feeling at the end of the race for about 30 seconds - sort of felt a bit faint.

Measured bloods at the end BG = 4.2; Ketones 5.1. Similar results 4 hrs later and again the next morning so UCAN did not negatively affect BG :slight_smile:
I ate nothing else before or during the race, only UCAN and about 2.5 litters water.

So, thanks again for the advice, I’m delighted with the results.

(Dale) #13

So, training strategy from here on is to still try and maximize fat burning with water-only, low HR longer rides.
The difference is that I now know I can carry a little UCAN with me and use it if the wheels fall off half way through a ride :smile:

(The o-chem police are coming) #14

Glad that worked for you. Keep us posted on any new revelations or developments. That’s a big ride for 4 scoops of UCAN. You definitely burned some fat in there somewhere. Did you do any carb back loading (some carbs with dinner the night before) or full keto? And thanks for sharing the BG and BK levels. I don’t have measuring equipment. So it was great to see that. I track ketone trends with my cheapo breathalyzer. I have never had any dips in ketones (acetone breath) from the UCAN so long as I eat it while exercising.

(Dale) #15

That’s a big ride for 4 scoops of UCAN
Well… the instructions state 2 scoops for every 2.5hrs so I thought I’d try that amount first and it seemed to be ok. Am terrified of dropping out of ketosis and putting a dent in the fat burning adaptation at this stage, so tried to be a little conservative.

. You definitely burned some fat in there somewhere.
I hope so. Not much change on the scale the day after (yes, I know, weight is a lousy measure!)

Did you do any carb back loading (some carbs with dinner the night before) or full keto?
No carb loading. just normal Keto Diet before and after. IIRC the day before was omelette with cheese for breakfast, no lunch and supper was green salad with cheese, nuts & olive oil, roast chicken with lemon butter sauce and 2 glasses of red wine.