Keto and cirrhosis

(Griffin Mekelburg) #1

Hey everyone!
Im asking a question for my mother in law. She was diagnosed Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver years back and never took care of herself. She now has cirrhosis of the liver and gets acides. Has anyone done keto with cirrhosis (Ive seen everything on keto and fatty liver, but have not seen much on keto with cirrhosis already developed)? What did you modify? How did you control salts, or is that not a worry once adapted? Just looking for either info on how to help her out or anecdotal info to show her what ways to help improve are out there. Thanks so much :slight_smile:

(Rob) #2

I am also very interested for my mother. She got auto-immune hepatitis but the result was the same. My concern is with a compromised liver, does it strain it too much to make all the required glucose?
She also had a Whipple procedure to deal with a small cancer which removed gall bladder, bile duct, duodenum and half the pancreas so she has to take enzyme pills to digest fat so HF may be an issue?
Like Griffin, any advice would be much appreciated.

(Karen) #3

Not medical advice, but makes sense.

K

Couple weeks in & have a question
(Bunny) #4

Interesting references:

  1. Dandelion pills or the real thing (stimulates bile production) or anything bitter(s); Artichoke
  2. Milk Thistle
  3. Bone Broth (glutathione antioxidant for the liver)
  4. Choline supplements (do not attempt {impaired liver function} keto without this)
  5. Ox Bile (purified bile salt) supplement (do not attempt {impaired liver function} keto without this)
  6. Digestive Enzyme Supplements i.e. Lipase
  7. Chanca Piedra (do not attempt {impaired liver function} keto without this)

Avoid:

  1. MSG (monosodium glutamate)

  2. Grains

  3. Dietary salt should be restricted to a noā€added salt diet of 90 mmol salt/day (5.2 g salt/day). (Level of evidence: 2b; recommendation: B.) Guidelines on the management of ascites in cirrhosis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1860002/

  4. High Fructose

Resources:

  1. What Is Choline? Benefits, Sources & Signs of Choline Deficiency https://draxe.com/what-is-choline/

  2. Milk Thistle Benefits: Detox the Liver & Boost Glutathione https://draxe.com/milk-thistle-benefits/

  3. https://draxe.com/?s=Ox+Bile

  4. This One Ingredient is Behind Thousands of Liver Failure Cases https://drjess.com/this-one-ingredient-is-behind-thousands-of-liver-failure-cases/

  5. History of Chanca Piedra http://www.herballegacy.com/Thomas_Medicinal.html

  6. Digestive Enzyme Supplementation in Gastrointestinal Diseases https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4923703/

  7. Liver Cirrhosis: A Toolkit for Patients http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/Hepatology/CirrhosisToolkit.pdf

  8. Day 2 ā€“ Low Carb Breckenridge 2017 http://borntoeatmeat.com/?p=342

  9. HOW A HIGH FAT KETOGENIC DIET SAVED MY LIFE BY JEFF CYR
    http://www.thefatemperor.com/blog/2016/3/19/the-story

  10. Non Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (Nonalcoholic Steatohepatitis) also called NAFLD or NASH https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/tc/nonalcoholic-steatohepatitis-nash-overview

  11. Cooperation of liver cells in health and disease.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11729749/?i=5&from=/28724577/related

Study about high fat diet and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease
(Rob) #5

Thanks @Keto6468 , this is a great video.
However as Griffin mentioned, Fatty Liver is not cirrhosis although it can be a precursor. Fatty liver reduces liver function by compressing or displacing healthy liver cells (I think). This is reversible through keto etc. as you burn up that visceral fat. Cirrhosis is traditionally defined as irreversible damage - scarring/destruction of the cells, reducing overall liver function. There is increasing evidence that in theory you can reverse early stage cirrhosis/fibrosis from some causes (including my mumā€™s) but I havenā€™t seen anything conclusive and we havenā€™t personally seen it yet.

If Dr Berg is to be believed (and I generally do), then the balance of liver stressers vs. renewers might determine improvement of function. For instance, my mum takes a bunch of pills supposedly to keep her alive (though Iā€™m beginning to have my doubts) that stress the liver (steroids, etc.) which would counterbalance say, eating bitter greens.
Anyway, reversing the cirrhosis is one thing that I am researching but the other question is still, how does keto diet impact you when your liver is already on reduced function?

(Rob) #6

Wow - thanks (as usual). Iā€™ll get back to you in a couple of weeks when Iā€™ve read through the sources. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Seriously good stuff. Thanks again.

(Bunny) #7

Getting closer!

A step closer to artificial livers
Researchers identify compounds that help liver cells grow outside the body. http://news.mit.edu/2013/a-step-closer-to-artificial-livers-0602

Lab-grown liver cells are a step closer to treating liver disease http://theconversation.com/lab-grown-liver-cells-are-a-step-closer-to-treating-liver-disease-14914

Old Livers Made New Again
Unhealthy organs provide a framework for growing replacement ones. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/419358/old-livers-made-new-again/

In situ expansion of engineered human liver tissue in a mouse model of chronic liver disease. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28724577/

(Rob) #8

I read the sources and Iā€™m going to add choline, milk thistle and a combined liver supplement pill that has much of the other herbs/vitamins to her regimen. Iā€™ll check on ox bile but I think her Pharma enzyme pills cover that. If not, Iā€™ll add that.

This is more for attempting cirrhosis reversal/management and itā€™s a few months until her next liver function test so lets see if it makes any difference. Hopefully this plus low carb will remove some of the other symptoms of her condition - brain fog, low energy/fatigue. She lost 30 lbs with CICO and 40lbs due to the extreme trauma of her surgery and post-surgical complications but losing a few more pounds couldnā€™t hurt (sheā€™s still 20-30lbs over where sheā€™d like)

In the meantime, she is going to try low carb but not keto. Iā€™ve harangued her with the science and experiences about every day and she buys into it in theory. She knows the rough carb values of the things she eats and is already making better choices (most days).

(Griffin Mekelburg) #9

wow what a list of sources! Will be weeding through these for sure, thank you :slight_smile:

(Donna) #10

Hi I have been diagnosed with Autoimmune liver disease, and have refused biopsy and chemo drugsā€¦ I have done Keto successfully before, but stopped as i was not sure if i would be doing more harm than good, but now after viewing the videoā€™s and reading posts, i feel confident that I can go ā€˜Ketoā€™ and hopefully stop this autoimmune disease.

Has anyone else been diagnosed with autoimmune liver disease? I am scared as i am going against popular medicine and so my Gastroenterologist has refused to see me or do follow-ups with blood work should i find an alternative healing methodology.
It seems my immune system is going nutsā€¦ and so I do believe that cutting all sugar, grains, pre pkgd foods etc and doing keto with only organic green veggies and grass fed free range meats and wild caught non farmed fish may help to heal me, including good doses of grass-fed butter/ghee, and MCTā€™s.

How do we know just how much fat to take? In the past when i was on keto, doing the bulletproof diet, I did find that i felt somewhat nauseous when taking 2 - 3 tablespoons of fat in my morning coffee doing intermittent fasting, followed by 2 keto meals per day. Is this just an unavoidable occurrence?
Also is there any difference between taking MCT oil or MCT powder and MCT salts?
Thank you so much for the great advice and tutorials on liver disease.

(Bunny) #11

Could be an issue with Gastroparesis or Pacreatitis and being able to digest fat?

Since your going the holistic route via autophagy here is some research I was looking at!

Research:

  1. Regulation of liver regeneration by growth factors and cytokines
    The capability of the liver to fully regenerate after injury is a unique phenomenon essential for the maintenance of its important functions in the control of metabolism and xenobiotic detoxification.The regeneration process is histologically well described, but the genes that orchestrate liver regeneration have been only partially characterized. Of particular interest are cytokines and growth factors, which control different phases of liver regeneration. ā€¦ā€ ā€œā€¦Inhibition of several growth factors or their receptors in rodents has been shown to impair the liver regeneration process. Furthermore, the effects of antagonists against other growth factorsā€”such as HGF and FGFsā€”on liver regeneration remain to be determined. ā€¦ā€

  2. Emerging functions of amphiregulin in orchestrating immunity, inflammation and tissue repair ā€œā€¦Furthermore, multiple immune mediators including: A. prostaglandin E2 (Berasain et al., 2005; Qi et al., 2012; Shao et al., 2003)
    B. cAMP (Johansson et al., 2004) C. insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) (Rodland et al., 2008) and transforming growth factor-Ī² (TGF-Ī²) (Bennett et al., 1992; Zhou et al., 2012) ā€¦can induce AREG expression, suggesting that AREG production may be regulated by the activation of multiple cell types during an immune response. ā€¦ā€

  3. Tumor Necrosis Factor and Liver Regeneration ā€œā€¦Liver has the remarkable ability to regenerate, but the mechanism of regeneration is still not well known. Liver resection or hepatocyte loss caused by viral or chemical injury initiates hepatocyte replication, whereas an enlarged liver mass is corrected by apoptosis. ā€œStem-likeā€ cells proliferate when hepatocyte replication is blocked or delayed. Studies of the mechanisms that regulate liver growth have been done in animals subjected to partial hepatectomy (PH) or chemical injury. ā€¦ā€

  4. AREG amphiregulin

  5. Emerging functions of amphiregulin in orchestrating immunity, inflammation and tissue repair

  6. Administration of multipotent mesenchymal stromal cells restores liver regeneration and improves liver function in obese mice with hepatic steatosis after partial hepatectomy

  7. The In Vivo Effect of Hepatotrophic Factors Augmenter of Liver Regeneration, Hepatocyte Growth Factor, and Insulin-Like Growth Factor-II on Liver Natural Killer Cell Functions

  8. Fetal and Adult Stem Cells for Liver Regeneration & Tissue Engineering

  9. TGF-a Transforming growth factor a may be a physiological regulator of liver regeneration by means of an autocrine mechanism

  10. Liver Regeneration: Basic Mechanisms, Relevant Models and Clinical Applications

  11. Evidence for the presence of an inactive precursor of human hepatocyte growth factor in plasma and sera of patients with liver disease

  12. 5 Nutrients To Heal Autoimmune Disease

  13. Suppression of Autophagy During Liver Regeneration Impairs Energy Charge and Hepatocyte Senescence in Mice

  14. Spaceflight Activates Autophagy Programs and the Proteasome in Mouse Liver

  15. Fullerene C60 nanoparticles ameliorated cyclophosphamide-induced acute hepatotoxicity in rats Conclusion: Fullerene C60 is significantly normalized both blood and liver parameters altered by cyclophosphamide-induced toxicities. These outcomes are of clinical importance particularly, application of Fullerene C60 as a unique therapy or in combination to counteract cyclophosphamide side effects in cancer patients. Further studies are required to systematically test different doses of fullerene C60 in preclinical settings.

  16. Liver cirrhosis reversed

(Donna) #12

Thanks, Bunny, I do seem to have a little Pancreatitis going on as well, but have not been diagnosed as i stayed home the week i got my first attack, and so just drank broth, and water with lots of curcumin, Vitamin C and grapeseed extract for pain every 3 hrs. I was surprised that it worked and i was eventually able to sleep. When i take 2-3 tbsp of MCT oil i will feel mildly nauseous for a few hours, so i am starting off a little slower this time with only 2 tbsp in morning broth or coffee. Thanks for the good reads will check them out! I have watched the Stem cell miracle series on the internet and it was some of the most exciting news i have ever heard. Hopefully, if i cannot turn my autoimmune liver disease around, maybe i could get stem cells injected to heal myself. So happy this is the end of day one, back on keto!! :smile:

#13

Ask your mother in law to go look in the mirror and stick out her tongue, is it white?

#15

I just read a story at one of the links, above, about a man who was diagnosed with autoimmune liver disease and he brought it under control (liver function tests are normal now) by eating a LCHF diet:

HOW A HIGH FAT KETOGENIC DIET SAVED MY LIFE BY JEFF CYR

(Gina) #16

Hi Everyoneā€¦ Just found this topic while googling the same questionā€¦ ā€œLiver pain on Ketoā€
I was diagnosed with Fatty liver about 5 months ago. I had pain on and off so had an abdominal ultrasound and thatā€™s what it came back as. Started Keto and gradually introduced IF 16/8, not long afterwards and lost 30 pound over 3 months with random pain issues throughout. Then I had a month where I had off days due to a lot going on but kept my weight stableā€¦ So 4 days ago, started Keto/IF again but the last 2 days Iā€™ve been feeling off and my Liver pain is back.
I guess I should just keep going but itā€™s rather frightening when your not sureā€¦ The doc wonā€™t be of any help as he just glosses over things so I can imagine his response to this.

(Laurie) #17

Welcome, @ginad . Iā€™m sorry I donā€™t know anything about your problem. I hope someone will be able to help.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

First, it may not be liver pain, so just bear that in mind. It is hard to trace pain in the abdominal cavity to its actual source.

Second, Lustig et al. showed that fatty liver disease normalises within days of cutting out sugar (i.e., sucrose and fructose) and alcohol. Fructose and ethanol are both metabolised in the liver by the same metabolic pathway, which can only handle so much. Fatty liver disease develops when that pathway gets overwhelmed. Lustigā€™s team took forty children from his paediatric obesity clinic and changed only the amount of fructose they ate; the kidsā€™ fatty livers cleared up in something like ten days. The reduction in sugar intake during your first three months of keto should have resolved your fatty liver disease.

It is possible, of course, that you are an outlier, and that lack of sugar and alcohol, rather than an excess, is damaging to your liver, but that would be very unusual. So donā€™t let the attraction of one possible explanation blind you to other possibilities, and be sure your doctor explores all possible causes of your pain.

Pain in right side 3 months into Keto when fasting