Keeping Ketones High

cancer
fasting
gki
ketones
(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #1

I searched but didn’t see what I was hoping to find.
My ketone readings have been all over the map. I’m trying to find a way to keep them more or less constant (or at least within a narrow minimum range).

For example, last night my macros were:
C: 8g F: 243 P: 77g Cal: 2555

This morning, upon waking, my glucose was 71 and ketones 3.6.
Those are numbers I’d like to keep constant thru the day. I normally only eat supper, but might have some MCT oil or Flaxseed oil in the morning or early afternoon.

Any ideas or suggestions for keeping ketones high? I’m aiming for a GKI as close to, or under 1 as possible.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #2

I think it’s natural for variations throughout the day, more in the morning, less later in the day. It’s the way your body produces and uses ketones for energy. There’s lees when you’re active and using them and more when you’ve been sleeping all night. I don’t think you should worry about it at all. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Karim Wassef) #3

There is no point in trying to keep ketones constant. The body is extremely adaptive and actually uses everything you do and eat to prioritize and optimize your ketone level. It’s doing what it needs to keep you alive, energetic and healthy.

I try to just keep them over 1.0 as often as possible because I enjoy the mental and physiological benefits. More importantly, if my ketones are that high, then my glucose and insulin are generally going to be low (g<80).

That’s where I personally focus since metabolic and oxidative driven disease is promoted with high glucose and insulin.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #4

So how would one strive to keep a GKI of 1 or less then? I want my GKI to be that low as often as possible.

See this conversation:
http://ketocancermom.com/2019/01/23/conversation-with-ketogenic-cancer-diet/

image

His GKI is under 1 most of the day! That is what I’d like, for better disease management.

(Karim Wassef) #5

I do the same.

1
1.PNG1049×515 45.4 KB

GKI under 1 is very hard to maintain without extended fasting in my experience.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #6

His was a chart for over the course of 1 day, yours isn’t, so they can’t really be compared.
Without long fasting, how can it be done?

(Karim Wassef) #7

His ketones are far from constant. His GKI also moves all over. He keeps it under 1 by keeping his glucose low.

I measure 3-6 times every day… not 20, but it really doesn’t matter.

If you want under 1… fast. IF, OMAD, EF.

If you eat, you’re not under 1. The only exception is if you only consume fat and low amounts of that… no protein or carbs.

(bulkbiker) #8

I would guess looking at the facebook page that as he is treating cancer he’s probably taking exogneous ketones to keep those levels up.
There’s no real need to keep your GKI over 1 if you are relatively healthy and as others have said its bloody hard. I got there for one set of readings on my last 3 day fast.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #9

OK, so they aren’t constant, but his GKI is regularly under 1. I’m trying to find the best way to do that.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #10

Unless I get a response my question of “how to keep ketones high through the day”, I’m planning on deleting this topic.

(Karim Wassef) #11

You can fast, exercise, drink coffee and ACV … and maybe take MCT oil.

That’s how I do it. If you want to eat real food & have a GKI below 1, you’re going to have to practice extreme endurance sports and start taking ice baths to increase thermogenesis off the charts.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

I know of no other way to stimulate maximum glucagon secretion than to eliminate carbohydrate intake. In the absence of dietary carbohydrate, there will be no more than the usual tablespoon of glucose in the blood, which is the level gluconeogenesis aims at.

A lack of carbohydrate in the diet will also drive your insulin/glucagon ratio as low as possible, and the glucagon will stimulate ketogenesis. The minimal insulin secretion stimulated by your protein intake will keep gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis under control without inhibiting them, so you won’t need to fear hyperglycemia or ketoacidosis.

You may find that the only way to drive your GKI so low is tosupplement your liver’s production of ketone bodies with an exogenous ketone supplement. It would also be wise to refrain from activities that would consume the ketones, so that they can remain circulating in your bloodstream and provide a high reading.

If you are trying to control cancer with a ketogenic diet, be very sure that the type of cancer you have is not one of the ones that thrive on ketone bodies. Not all cancers respond to the Warburg Effect, apparently.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #13

I’m very sure that keto would be beneficial, and my doctor hasn’t objected to it. The little bit of research I’ve done says ketogenic diet should be beneficial, but it’s there any way to know for certain (out of curiosity)?

(bulkbiker) #14

Maybe you would like to tell us why you are aiming for a GKI of 1 so we can see where we can help?

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #15

I’ve posted in other areas of the forum about that, so I didn’t feel a need to post here.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

Since ketone levels depend on how we are using them and on how we are eating, it makes sense to expect some fluctuations. Without knowing your goal or your intent (and I don’t have time to search the forums for your old posts), it is impossible to give any more advice than in my previous post. In general, I would say that it is pointless to chase ketones just for the sake of a high number.

(Karim Wassef) #17

Well. High ketones achieved naturally are good. They just don’t need to be constant. Fluctuation is part of the body’s natural cycle and is absolutely intentional and necessary.

Our heart rate changes all day long because it needs to given our demands on our bodies. A constant heart rate would be catastrophic. Same with all physiological variables. We have wonderful adaptive bodies.

Even fasting for 6 days now, my ketones meander between 2 and 5 throughout the day. My target though is to keep my glucose in the 50-70 corridor. That generally keeps my GKI under 3 and that’s good enough to be healthy and energetic as well as meaningfully autophagic.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #18

The reason I’m trying to keep my GKI around (or under) 1 is because I have Stage 4 Breast Cancer.
I’m also taking medication to help treat it (its hormone-sensitive). Recently I’ve been focusing on trying to have relatively high fat in my diet, while keeping protein moderate, and carbs low (under 20g). I’m going to keep doing some more experimentation and I’ll post back with my results. So far, it looks like keeping my fat up is really what is helpful.

(Karim Wassef) #19

sorry to hear that and wishing you the best.
keeping carbs low and fats high are the key ingredients. Once you’re fat adapted, consider fasting.
If you haven’t tried adding MCT, I would recommend it too.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #20

I am fat adapted. I started keto back in June, when I was diagnosed. I was doing lazy keto up until December, when I started tracking. I am already using MCT oil and some flaxseed oil, and apple cider vinegar. I’m also eating OMAD, and trying to not lose weight.