Karim's muscle gain carnivore adventure

(I'm that bad type, make your mama sad type) #652

@Karim_Wassef I’ve eaten kangaroo before. My aunt special orders it for her dog, who has stomach issues and is allergic to meats except for kangaroo, rabbit, and the occasional beef.

She was prepping the dogs food and I tried the kangaroo and it was pretty good. I didnt have a lot of it. But it wasnt bad. You can mail order it to you, that’s what she has done.

(Karim Wassef) #653

Like this?


Get that delivered by drone and your good to go! :joy:

(Karim Wassef) #655

I was very well behaved today:

and I wasn’t hungry after my meal… and I had zero almonds

and with less than 2000 calories, and almost 240g of protein (1.7g / lb lean), I can genuinely say that I’m totally surprised that I’m not hungry. It really seems to be a case of flipping fat and protein and with low enough fat and high enough protein, I’ve found a second local “minima” in my hunger/satiety response. This morning, though, was the most hunger-provoking experience - during my usual fasted window.

Very strange.

Maybe, just as with keto adaptation, there’s a protein adaptation period and the body learns to use what’s available. Blood ketones were still very low 0.2 - 0.3 which is discouraging.

Tomorrow mid-morning (dry fasted) in my next DEXA/RMR so it’ll be interesting to see what this experiment has yielded.

I’m right where I predicted I’d be on lean mass, but 3lbs heavier on fat mass… at least based on the scale. Still hoping it’s water and it’ll flush before the DEXA tomorrow.

and here’s what the dietary macros look like

This is the first week (starting June 10th) that I really stuck to strict carni with high protein and low fat every single day.

(Karim Wassef) #656

DEXA showed a recovery of lean mass (muscle?) since the last test but I always suspected that those results were flawed in some way.

So… I’ll take a step back and compare the last “reliable” result on 5/4… so 6 weeks ago or so. This will encompass all my carnivore muscle building time too, so it’s a good reference.

I went from

138.4lbs to 137.9lbs lean … so small reduction in net lean (0.5lbs). I’ve seen some skin tightening around my torso so that might be part of it.

42.2lbs to 40.4lbs fat … so decent reduction in net fat (1.8lbs).

So dropped from 22.6% bf to 22.0% which also aligns with my scale readings.

More detail to come but it’s encouraging. Given my ups and downs, I think that if I had started and stuck to lean protein from the beginning, I would have made more progress.

Visceral fat dropped from 1.62 to 1.46. It had dropped more on 5/24 but I’m discounting that data for now. I have some ideas on this too.

The RMR declined unfortunately. I don’t have the 5/4 RMR handy, but from 5/24 it dropped from 1950 to 1820. That’s a surprise given the calories I’ve been consuming. Need to think more on this.

More details later today.

(Karim Wassef) #657

The 26% sugar burning is amazing given that I only had 14g carbs (liver, ricotta and eggs) yesterday!

That proves that the protein is converted to glucose. Either I eat protein and suffer the daylight hunger the following day, or my body is going to grab it from my lean mass. Probably cortisol driven but the data lines up.

My lean mass projections seem to be on target and the reduced RMR probably explains why I still have a gap in expected vs measured fat mass. So I need that protein

How to up my fat and fibre, but not protein?

Resting heart rate … 0

You are a Zombie. I knew eating brains would do that! :zombie:

(Karim Wassef) #659

No probe used = zero … lol

(I'm that bad type, make your mama sad type) #660

Yo I just passed your fantasy in Walgreens

(Karim Wassef) #661

I haven’t seen the sriracha is a while… love that flavor

evil evil!!! temptation!

One day, I will fill an empty pool with sriracha almonds and swim and munch like a Pac-Man in Pac-Man heaven… but not today!!!

(Karim Wassef) #662

I got good news today and I could literally feel the stress leave my body so I tested and…

That’s 68G, 0.6K … I haven’t been under 70 is weeks… and never since I started eating protein over 1.5g/lbs lean mass. Feeling good about it…

It’s frustrating though… I get good results, I de-stress and my results get better. When I got bad results, I over stress and my results got worse.

The strange thing is that I am actually calm either way - I “feel” in control. But my blood sugar does whatever it wants to do…

I was listening to a lecture on this and the thesis was that the body is unwilling to relinquish control over those physiological variables that are critical to survival. So it pumps me full of glucose as if there was a real lion chasing me… and will not give my conscious mind the control to chill it out.

Maybe I need to trick it with artificial good news somehow… damn sympathetic nervous system doesn’t know when to shut up.


I got the feeling this was happening to my blood pressure. The more I tested it, the higher the reading would get. :slight_smile:

So, I stopped checking it everyday, and now only occasionally. Checked it just the other day. Guess what? It was really good.

(Karim Wassef) #664

Yup. Feedback loops are a mess… just need to crack it or hack the code

I think that’s why we love surprises and rollercoasters… and really good comedy tricks you into laughing even if you’re sad. it shocks and resets. Maybe even why good drama makes you cry and resets you another way.

Maybe all culture was developed to overcome our animal physiological responses… ehhh

(Karim Wassef) #665

Replace donut with spicy salty almonds:

(Karim Wassef) #666

ok… here are the detailed results of the carnivore experiment. The three bars on the right of each section represent the start, middle and end of the carnivore phase:

remember how I said I was going to focus on squats to make up for the muscle loss during my fast in my legs and glutes… well, there’s only so much time in the week… and I successfully rebuilt by legs, and lost chest and upper back in exchange.

The summary says it all:


Great on arms and glutes and pretty good on legs (even though I gained a bit of fat). Overall with arms and legs/glutes, I gained 2.1 lbs of muscle and lost 0.9lbs of fat… woohoo!!

I even lost fat on my chest/abs and back, but I lost a lot more muscle. Overall in the torso, I lost 2.7lbs of muscle and lost 0.9lbs of fat… :frowning_face:

So that’s how I ended up losing 1.8lbs of fat and also losing 0.6lbs of lean through substantial redistribution.

The net effect is that I’ve lost 0.7% of body fat%.

So that’s good… but as far as a muscle building experiment… dare I say it again? failure!
It was a successful body fat% loss experiment, but that wasn’t the goal this time.

I know you guys hate it when I say that, but failure is good if we can learn from it… and I’m going to keep at this thing and sharing all my failures publicly until it gets better.

A basic question about carnivore nutrient imbalance
(Karim Wassef) #667

Ok … on to RMR… it dropped so I tried to map it out against lean mass, fat mass, total mass, and even body fat%:


the arrows indicate the change in time… and I don’t see a pattern that makes sense…

The last data point where I’ve gained lean mass but my RMR is the second lowest it’s ever been… just baffles me. I am almost at the same weight I was at the start of the carnivore experiment but RMR is down from ~2400 to ~1800!! WTH??

That is such a massive change and my body fat has barely moved by 1% and my weight is so close to the starting position … that I can only conclude that RMR is not at all correlated to composition?

I realize that the metabolic rate is primarily a function of the difference between what the body needs and what it has access to. If the total available (intake + endogenous) is less than it needs, it will throttle it down. But I expected “some”… just some… correlation with composition.

But my data shows that it isn’t at all… maybe I missed it, but it’s just not there.

Does resistance training/weight lifting stall fat loss?
(Boston_guy) #668

Don’t know if you’re into sleep tracking, but I’m observing that brewer’s yeast is improving my deep sleep as measured by Oura. Deep sleep should help with HGH, T, muscle building/recovery. A hypothesis if you’re looking for ideas to test :slight_smile:


I appreciate these little cheat emojis, so I could understand what the graphs were supposed to be telling me. :slight_smile:

happy sad

(I'm that bad type, make your mama sad type) #670

Stole the words out of my head :rofl::rofl::rofl:

(Karim Wassef) #671

I actually supplement with brewers yeast daily.

I take two in the morning and then another half tablespoon with my whey shake in the evening. It’s pretty good (for me):

3 scoops of whey protein isolate
1/2 tablespoon brewers yeast powder
2 tablespoons of ground ginger juice
2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar
1 teaspoon of pink salt

I’m planning on adding 1/2 tablespoon (14g) of Leucine powder and 1/2 tablespoon (14g) of creatine today too… sort of working on the ultimate muscle shake