Just a rant, feel free to ignore

(Jen ) #21

Hey Sue.

Sorry to hear you’re discouraged… the common theme I’ve read and what is working for me (the freaking scale is not really budging STILL). I’m hoping you and I will wake up one day SOON and be fat adapted.

One thing that helped me a lot (and I am going to try another fast today) was when I had some tummy trouble and was forced to fast. I made sure I had LOTS of pink salt to sprinkle on my tongue when I was feeling real hunger pangs and chicken/veggie broth. I did wind up losing and keeping off 3 lbs in a 37(?) hour fast.

If you ever want to try a fast, I’ll be your accountability buddy! It doesn’t have to be long but I found that my first fast really helped lose inches & a few pounds.

I’m sorry you’re discouraged… I feel the same way sometimes. I need to do some more research as to WHY it seems that women fat adapt slower than men. (An observation that could be completely inaccurate).

I hear you on the holiday treats… I am enjoying the smells and ignoring the food. It sucks, lol.

You got this, girl.

(Michael ) #22

Don’t be discouraged. Once you learn what works for you, you can set it and forget it if you want. I start to get bored so i seek out recipes and new hacks, but if I’m too busy, autopilot works too

(Michael ) #23

Everyone is making great points. I still feel inclined to point my finger at whatever sugar substitute you’re using. My personal experience with hunger and insulin spikes come from stevia. However, if it’s preventing you from murdering people, it may not be something you are willing to negotiate with. But like i said, maybe try to lay off for a few days after Christmas to see what happens to your hunger. If it’s a night and day difference, maybe you will feel good about making a change. Hopefully, it’s just hormones and stress and you don’t have to give up anything, but just add a little more fat

#24

Awe it sounds like you’re doing so well with Keto but feel seriously frustrated that it’s not giving you the rewards you’ve worked hard for. Sooooo understandable! Hug!

So first of all: Congratulations!!! 6 Weeks!!! That’s a lot of dedication and a nice milestone to have reached!! I wonder if you’re thinking of weight and inches a lot at the minute, and if so… would it give you a break to say to yourself that you’ll do another 6 weeks before looking for a difference? Just a thought, that might not be what you want to do. But on the other hand, it would give you a time in the future to look forward to, and possibly minimise the number of times you would feel frustrated or beat yourself up over the next few weeks?

Another thought was to get yourself a non-food treat to celebrate the 6 weeks. Something you can look at often. It doesnt have to be extravagant - a cute little nic nak for your desk at work, or an inexpensive little bracelet (or a full blown diamond one, whatever your taste or budget is!), or a pretty print to put up at home, or (my own vice) a new lipstick. The point is: something to say ‘Congratulations on 6 weeks of dedication’ that is visual and makes you smile. So when you see it, it will remind you (cheerily) of the accomplishment of getting to this first 6 weeks of a new WOE!! Especially any time you feel downhearted about inches or weight progress. And hopefully you can imagine us all cheering 'Go Sue Go!" When you look at it too :hugs: Also, no one else needs to know what it symbolises. It can be your secret self-congratulatory treat :laughing:

And final thought: When you play about with what to eat and when, like the advice given by others so far, I wonder if one thing you could try is front-loading your protein intake by having some at breakfast. Its not easy to fit in fried up bacon and eggs if you have to get out the door quickly, but you could try making a set of those bacon and egg muffins on a Sunday. There are tons of recipes and variations online. Plus, if you really dig those hotdogs, you could make the first batch with hotdogs instead of bacon. The reason I suggest it is because I realised the days that i had protein and fat with my BPC in the morning, were the days I didn’t think about eating again til dinner time. This approach doesnt go well with the idea of trying to skip food at breakfast to prolong the overnight fast, though. So, it depends which adaptions you want to experiment with, and which you are steadfast about. My vote is to try the bacon muffins. You just heat a couple up in the micro and take them with you in your hands if youre on the go! It just always feels like such a nice ‘treat’ to start the day whenever bacon is involved! I think it was conditioned into me as a child that bacon was a ‘weekend food!’

Take care, and just you vent and rant whenever you want. We’ll be here :sunny:

Xo

#25

Awwwwww, shucks - I love you guys!!! Thank you for all the suggestions, advice, ideas, compassion, and support! How can I NOT keep working at this with such a great team behind me!

I will reply to some of the posts in more detail later (at the office now) but you’ve all given me a lot to think about. And of course, Richard’s thorough but easy-to-understand scenario and suggestions were spot on. Perhaps I will try delaying the BPC until mid morning or whenever hunger hits. (No, I don’t use cream in my coffee, only MTC or ghee and coconut oil and, yes, artificial sweetener)

I load up on bacon and eggs Saturday and Sunday around noon but unfortunately even that has me hungry about 2 hours later. But I do like the idea of trying the pre-made muffins to grab and take to work with me.

I look forward to days when I can try a fast but I know I’m not there yet… hoping to become fat-adapted soon and then will jump on that wagon.

I like the suggestion to not think about the inches and weight for another 6 weeks, however, I could do a lot more damage if I keep doing what I’m doing for another 6… I need to stop this train and put it on another track and THEN give it 6 weeks.

@richard , isn’t there an auto-pilot app on our phones? If not, could you invent one? :wink:

FYI, I stopped checking my urine ketones after the first few weeks but my breathometer almost always reads anywhere from .02 to .04. What does that mean? I would think it means my body is utilizing the ketones I’m producing and that’s supposed to be a good thing, so I have to wonder if I’m eating too much, even though it sure doesn’t look like it in Carb Manager.

Also FYI, I’m 5’5", 175 lbs. and 60 years old (how can that be?!?!?!) I did use a calculator 6 weeks ago to figure out my macros but maybe I need to do it again.

Thanks again … I’ll be back later - this darned job really interferes with my personal life!
Sue

(Jenn Monaghan) #26

Are pecans up there too or is there a reason they’d be more insulinogenic?

(Brian) #27

Pecans are excellent for a keto diet. Enjoy! :slight_smile:

#28

Is this the hot dogs, Sue?

ballpark beef

If so, look at the third ingredient…

ballpark ingreds
ballpark ingreds.jpg1071×248 42.3 KB

The corn syrup could explain the inches gain and lack of progress, Sue. Could you maybe on weekends cook up some nice fatty hamburger patties to take for lunches instead for a week or two without changing anything else and see if that makes a difference??

BTW, I’m 5’ 6", currently 166 (began the last week of May at 200, have been holding at this weight for a couple of months so I could enjoy the holidays this year - will be fasting at the end of January) and I’m 53. I used to have a stressful job until a year ago, when I had a near-fatal stroke that I’m still recovering from.

#29

Oh, sorry Jennifer, I meant to reply to Sue. Left-handed, single-handed typing really isn’t my forte yet. If someone can tell me how to change it to Sue, that would be great, thanks!

#30

Lots of excellent ideas.

Wanted to agree, you need more fat at meals and less time eating throughout the day, maybe consider HWC in coffee instead of BPC and you may be able to eliminate the sweetner. I fasted before being fat adapted and had no problems but it is not a universal approach

Nuts vary tremendously. Cashews are terrible, Macadamias and Pecans are excellent. I think Walnuts and Pine Nuts are ok. DietDoctor.com has a list

Never measure at the end of the day. After 8 months I still feel like I look 10 lbs heavier at the end of the day than at breakfast

(Allan L) #31

Keto is long term, not short term. I initially put on 10 lbs in my first month, stick with it and it will pay off in the long term. Once you are no longer hungry and fat addapted you can really cut back on your fat, this really helped kick my weight loss. Eating 100g of added fat from MCT / Coconut oil / loaded coffee / smothered cream will stop your body from using its body fat and you’ll never lose weight.

(Richard Morris) #32

Yep Pecans are fine. I just grabbed some of the data from the USDA nutrient database and ranked nuts using (0.56 * protein) + (Carbohydrates - Fibre) as a rough proxy for relative effect in insulin. SO in fact Pecans are better than fine they are the best nuts.

Carb Fibre Glucose Protein Fat Insulin
Nuts, pecans 13.86 9.6 4.26 9.17 71.97 9.3952
Nuts, macadamia 13.82 8.6 5.22 7.91 75.77 9.6496
Nuts, pilinuts 3.98 3.98 10.8 79.55 10.028
Nuts, Brazil 11.43 8.6 2.83 14.29 65.71 10.8324
Nuts, hazelnuts 16.7 9.7 7 14.95 60.75 15.372
Nuts, walnuts 13.71 6.7 7.01 15.23 65.21 15.5388
Nuts, pine 13.08 3.7 9.38 13.69 68.37 17.0464
Nuts, almonds 21.55 12.5 9.05 21.15 49.93 20.894
Peanuts 16.13 8.5 7.63 25.8 49.24 22.078
Nuts, pistachio 27.17 10.6 16.57 20.16 45.32 27.8596
Nuts, cashew 30.19 3.3 26.89 18.22 43.85 37.0932
Nuts, ginkgo 37.6 37.6 4.32 1.68 40.0192
Nuts, acorns 40.75 4 36.75 6.15 23.86 40.194
Nuts, chestnuts 44.17 44.17 1.63 1.25 45.0828
Nuts, Pinon 51.06 0 51.06 7.41 34.08 55.2096
(Marie Dantoni) #33

Your frustration is totally justified.
One thing I have found to be help is what Virginia said about limiting meals and snacks as much as you can. I could increase intake and work on reducing the number of times you eat. In my experience even eating twice keeps my insulin and cravings higher than if I had eaten all the same things in one or two hours.

(Jenn Monaghan) #34

And I think they are the most delicious. Thanks!

(VLC.MD) #35

Glucose = Net Carb ?

#36

Pecans are my favorite too!

#37

I agree. I was compelled to eat so much more in the beginning stages on keto, but it helped me stay on course. Eventually that fat adaptation kicks in and you suddenly find yourself eating less and fewer meals/snacks, then the fasting kicks that into hyperdrive. Eat as much as you need (keeping your carbs in your goal range) and give your body time to adjust to its new fuel system.

(Michael ) #38

Apparently. That’s what the math was showing anyways. Carbs-fiber =glucose. Alas, I never got a chance to visit down under. It’s top of my list

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #39

@Susan777 I’d be ranting too, in your situation, so keep keto, and rant on!

Let me just add my two cents’ worth, however, and suggest that perhaps you aren’t getting enough calories? I learned from these forums that caloric intake that’s too low can cause your body to cut back on its energy expenditures, so perhaps your basic metabolic rate has declined to match your calories. (It’s odd, this effect, because fasting doesn’t cause it, as you’d think it would.) On the other hand, if you give your body enough energy, it uses more by ramping up your metabolic rate, spending energy on healing and growth, and even wasting heat.

For what it’s worth, Dr. Phinney, in one of his lectures that I watched online, says that when people complain of being stuck, his first advice is to cut carbohydrate intake, and if they are still stuck, he tells them to eat more fat. On no account, he says, should we eat more carbohydrate.

You’ve probably read enough advice by now to make your head spin. Good luck, and I hope you figure it out!

#40

I think that’s the package, at the office now so I can’t check but I think it is. And I did notice the corn syrup in the ingredients but I figured since it’s only 4 carbs, it’s not a problem. So we not only have to watch carbs but we have to carefully select the source of the carbs? Granted I would use my 20 grams on candy bars but an ingredient in a fatty meat I thought would be acceptable.

Yes, I can experiment with skipping the hot dogs and doing tuna or hamburgers for a week or two… good idea. Wouldn’t that be a pisser if that’s all it took!
Sue