It’s more like a slide you ease into rather than a jump. And after the fact, if you add in some of your old keto food, you’ll feel the effects. And not usually good ones. Just confirmation that your body is happy in carni-ville.
Jerky Jubilee ZC July!
coopdawg
#202
Yes, but I’m starting to feel I could live on lamb chops and button mushrooms forever.
I’m an old biologist, education wise…in my book, mushrooms aren’t vegetable, and fungi should be considered carni.
Hey! I know, this isn’t some kind of a strict cult, I know!
I just love mushrooms, in that I could maybe drop veg, but I seem to eat mushrooms everyday, and eggs every other day.
But, I think I’ll try it anyway, in August. Because that’s when I plan to drop the G&T too. Maybe do one thing at at a time?).
Shinita
#203
I miss something different, again 
Now I opened a herring. It has a very much not carni sauce (WHY WHY WHY people put sugar into tomato? 1. it’s a vegetable 2. it’s sweet. but they do it with green peas, I hated that with a passion all my life) that I only partially eat as it stick to my fish but it was a different thing and it did good even if the taste was spoiled by the sauce (and it was my fav sauce among all except mustard sauce but that’s rare. most canned fish has tomato sauce or some bad oil here). I just didn’t want more eggs or pork and while I wasn’t hungry, per se, I wanted something. So it scratched the itch, good to know.
Even my sponge cakes are boring alone though they are my experimental ones today. The ham powder made the “dough” liquid, it’s so baffling when I add powder and it gets more flowy but it happens sometimes. Yes, that’s why I prefer eggs (and maybe salt) only sponge cakes… But the ham gave it a nice flavor. Maybe it should go into the ice cream part. I stick to my normal sponge cakes…
This was my original lunch, I ate it with a break (I get satiated super quickly but I don’t believe it and I am right) though some were left. But I ate 7 tiny sponge cakes as well.
Weather is hot, the house is still cool, it has a super big weight and it’s all below 23C, it takes some time to warm up. Yay.
Our electricity usage is lower than ever, taking cold showers do that, it seems 
@Karen18: You have an even more fabulous place than before! Wow.
@Keto_Lou: Our well water is good enough just insanely hard. I drank better but most of the country has worse tasting water. Our village has it mixed, I drank the water at various parts and the difference is huge.
Alvaro’s Mom is living in a city, I never drink the water alone there and when it has much chlorine, I can’t even use it for a coffee. That’s bad. She is drinking carbonated water where the bottles are reused zillion times, I have that too, I just need way less.
I never would buy bottled water, we take minimalizing garbage and other such stuff quite seriously. Anyway, we don’t go shopping every day and almost never use the car and every shop is far away…
[…]
In the end, I had 260g pork (raw weight this time so over half a pound) and 10 eggs today (I wasn’t into eggs, it just added up, I drank 2). Okay day.
Shinita
#204
Oh this again… It’s NOT ANIMAL. That’s what matters. And vegetable is a kitchen term so I can imagine mushroom belongs there, no idea about the definition. I prefer scientific ones and animals, plants, fungi and the others are different kingdoms. Carnivore only accept the animal kingdom. And maybe other things in tiny amounts, it varies but those are just tolerated, not true carnivore items.
I will give a carni month a shot in September (I don’t remember any significant fruit season there… It’s between Wiliiams pear in August - maybe that lingers, IDK - and grapes in October, I have both of those and while I probably won’t eat much of them, it’s impossible to keep them at zero and why would I do that, seriously? Of course I eat everything I have in my garden especially if I fancy it. These are overly sweet so not significant despite the otherwise extreme deliciousness. I am glad my tomatoes aren’t the sweet kind) but of course I do what I comfortably can until then. Now I know that without dairy I have problems. Well maybe some other meat items would help but only fried pork and eggs, it’s too restricted for me at the moment.
I stopped eating mushroom ages ago except a little bit in my scrambled eggs sometimes, a few times a year. I liked them (the tasty ones from the nearby forests and fields) but they became meh just like almost all vegs. So even if I go off like crazy and it doesn’t matter, I don’t want them, not even as something exotic… Sometimes it’s in my meaty dish made by Alvaro - and I don’t like their presence. Even the only 2 vegs I use for cooking sometimes as they are vital for certain very egg or meat heavy dishes are rarely and sparingly used. A nice meat is perfect with salt only (and maybe eggs on the side :)).
coopdawg
#205
Hey, all I’m saying is, if I was to go carni, I would miss mushrooms more than most veg.
I’m on record for saying that. Yes? 
No problem. If I ‘slide in’ to carni, I’ll see what happens.
We can differ on how we feel about 'shrooms and their collective (huge varied species), and still remian freinds 
Shinita
#206
No, you said fungi should be carni. No because it’s not animal.
I totally jumped. From on/off keto to on/off carni. (Though I don’t fully remember how it happened. I lost interest in my beloved vegs quite quickly… And I was getting ready… Not really just was super interested while not thinking I can do such a thing for a while…) And now IDK what I am doing, I am slowly evolving I suppose? While keeping (enhancing) the ability to handle carbs. For a quick visit only, certain things never change.
I always made jumps, big but not huge ones. I suddenly cut out high-carb items (and lactose, I think that was together. gluten too), a tad later I suddenly dropped my carbs, then I did it again… And the big “meat instead of plants” thing 
That was impressive, it was a VERY good deal for my body and mental state regarding food. After I was sure I will eat vegs in bigger amounts (well in the tiny ones that keto allows on my on keto days) forever. I really, really thought that is fixed and I stop eating eggs before I stop eating vegs.
MeganNZ
(Megan)
#209
Hi folks, I’m 99% there! Haven’t fully transitioned to just cream in my coffee yet as I’m still having a small amount of unsweetened almond milk along with cream. But that’s the last plant product to eliminate. I won’t call it food, unsweetened almond milk is definitely a product lol.
I have a very large chest freezer b/c I raw feed my dogs and it’s pretty full! Added 3 large packs of lamb liver, some chicken livers, several large packs of rump steak and pork strips with lots of fat, plus 4 kg of ground beef, and 3 kg of ground pork yesterday. I make big juicy patties with the ground beef and I’m going to try a mix of ground beef and pork too. Just add an egg, a small amount of grated hard cheese, form into large patties and fry. It’s a great way to get some spare fat for cooking leaner meat too.
I cooked some chicken drumsticks yesterday and they were yuck. I usually like the taste of chicken but it seems I don’t now. Which is probably good! I can’t afford organic and who knows what rubbish chickens are fed to make them grow so quickly. Took all the meat off the bones and gave it to my dogs for dinner.
I saw some ribeye at the butcher (we call it scotch fillet here) but at $35 a kilo I had to say no. Rump steak is $20 a kilo, not nearly as nice, but it’s what I can afford and, as long as I cook it right, it’s fine. I love lamb liver but haven’t tried beef yet. Lamb is almost as good re the nutrient profile, but beef definitely adds in a few things lamb is low in. I have memories of the smell of boiling beef liver from childhood. Ewww! I think my grandmother used to cook it for the dogs. But I’ll bite the bullet soon and buy some beef liver. I very lightly fry thin strips of lamb liver when I’m cooking my beef patties. Is that a decent way to cook beef liver too? Or does it need some magic to lessen how strong it tastes?
I have been in such a bad mood the past few days. Nervous about all the protein on carni screwing up ketosis and trying to find out how much fat I “should” eat to prevent that. Oh My!!! I hate the damn internet! So much conflicting info, some of it utter BS. I went thru this on keto, constant angsting about protein and why my blood ketones are so pathetically low etc etc etc. On and on it went. So I’ve come to the same place I came to on keto a week or so ago. I’m just going to eat when I’m hungry and stop when I’m satisfied and give it a few months before going anywhere near the scales.
I definitely do want to be in ketosis on carni tho, to see if I’m one of the people who feel great. Tho I also know feeling great also happens as I heal my body. Body-wise I’m feeling pretty good, all my chronic pain has lessened by about 50% of what it was, feeling a little bit less fatigued and I think that will continue to improve, mood might be improved but hard to tell for sure until the last of my bad temperedness and stressing passes.
Looking forward to seeing where I am in another month!
Shinita
#210
Yep, you make it an opinion. But it’s not an opinion thing. Carnivore means only animal products are eaten in more than insignificant amounts (if one is relaxed and not strict).
But it’s overtalked at this point. And I don’t even care who define what as carnivore - except it’s very problematic if people think various things while using the same word. It was very troublesome as a vegetarian as people had no idea what that is. I thought it’s simple. But many had no idea I don’t eat chicken.
I think we all should eat in a way that works for us, labels aren’t important. Just if we want to communicate our woe simply… But it never will be clear due to people defining it oddly too often.
I like my “carnivore-ish” as it’s my very own definition. And only I am aware what it means (maybe not even me. it’s way stricter than a tiny extra on top of carnivore food, almost everything is banned) but that’s the important thing, it’s for my own attitude. If I don’t attach this label to my eating, I stray a bit more. It helps to keep me close to my chosen default woe most of the time and I can’t expect more than that. I can’t even do keto for an extended time… But I don’t need it so it’s fine. I do need to be way stricter than keto most of the time though.
I personally see no big difference between mushroom and lower-carb vegetables, they are all off to the same level in my eyes. It’s almost all about the carbs for me (I have a personal hate towards added sugar so a little raw veggie is better than some sugary condiment for me. but this is really an individual thing, each should decide what they consider okay, almost okay or bad. we all are different).
Keto_Lou
#211
meat, even a kilo per day if you can eat that much, shouldn’t throw you out of ketosis.
Sounds like you’ve got your plan well in hand.
I like Dr. Anthony Chaffee’s very simple view of carnivore. (He also carbonates my hormones or something, but that’s not much of why I watch him). Eat meat. Drink water. End of story. No fasting in the sense of denying your hunger, no supplements. Meat. Water. Eat when you’re hungry, and stop when you’re full. That’s really all you need. If you want salt, eggs, and dairy, and they don’t bother you, also okay. But it’s possible to do it at its very basic level: meat, water, letting satiety and hunger drive your decisions. He says not to worry about the organ meats. Lots of 15-year carnivores never eat them and seem the picture of health. If you know you like lamb liver, stick with that. Simplify, don’t complicate.
I hope you get 100% relief from the pain within the month. That’d be a motivator to stay on! Best of luck to you.
robintemplin
(Robin)
#212
I have never checked to see if I was in ketosis. It’s been 2 years now. Even on keto, before going carnivore. It doesn’t matter to me. I am already doing all the right things, so there would be no point. After a while you just need to trust the process. If you can do it, ignore the internet and all conflicting info… even on here…. It’s all individual.
You got this!
Fangs
#213
plus ketones will never show real accuracy as one stays on plan and uses their ketones. Your ketones when new on an eating plan will show XYZ amts, but as we stay on plan all those ketones are generated differently, different amts of diff. ketones in our bodies and used differently at certain times so in reality, it is a very hard measurement to put any weight on at all. Carnivore says don’t bother with ketones and ketosis checks, kinda useless. I am a fan of what Robin wrote above.
FrankoBear
#214
Certainly sounds like COVID @Fangs. You rest up. Let people help you.
My COVID senior prom was similar. I guess I recorded it all last month. I recall a sore throat and a positive test. Then thinking it weren’t so bad for a few days. Them WHAM! Big fever just as you describe, and really feeling the fever break overnight. None of it really kept me away from this chat, as it was nice keeping up with people’s stories.
Soon after that I lost my taste and smell @coopdawg. Worst thing was I couldn’t taste the coffee. It was an opportunity to break that food addiction which I didn’t take. The warm beverage comfort addiction overruled good intent. That lasted to different degrees for 3 weeks. Later on, at the end of the first week, I got a cough that responded well to codeine cough syrup. But I had chest aches and pains for 3 weeks, lasting about a week after the coughing resolved.
During the whole event I found I felt best when I was in higher ketosis. Resting and relaxing was important, and I felt best if it was done outdoors in the sunshine. So, I naturally fasted at times and burned up a bit of body fat, or I ate some extra butter with meals. So, don’t fret the inappetance @Fangs. Get well quick with strong carnivore instincts.
I’m going to jump in on the fungi. Mushrooms are quite nice to eat in the no plant-foods form of ‘carnivore’. Absolutely allow them, if they need an allowance. It makes me think of eating other things like jellyfish and algae. Don’t let Fangs read this next part but I also allow honey as a medicinal input, like I classify coffee (drugs) in a carnivore WOE. The coffee I drink. Sometimes I eat mould mixed with cheese. The honey, jellyfish, algae and fungi are all ‘allowances’. That’s different to eating them. Making them allowances in my n=1 carnivore methodology has meant I haven’t actually eaten them. They’re just available if I feel the need to eat them.
@MeganNZ I’m going to differ from Fangs and Robin on the ketones aspect. Detectable blood ketone levels will vary and be lower on carnivore. Urine ketones are less helpful. The key benefit for me is knowing that if blood ketones are detectable (the number doesn’t matter), then that means insulin production by the pancreas is being kept low. The biochemistry and endocrinology is wonderfully more complex. But keeping insulin low by using blood ketones as a trackable biomarker works as a motivating psychological benefit for me to stay on plan. From that point one can learn to manipulate the degree of ketosis when needed through eating and not eating, as in eating more fat or fasting. Being in higher ketosis helped me during COVID, for example. Or, if I need to deliver a lecture at uni and answer questions, I fast during the day, to raise circulating ketones for clean brain fuel. I thought Scotch fillet was the steak cut from the ‘eye’ of the rib eye steak which usually still has the rib bone attached (it makes a great handle when eating a 700g rib eye as finger food).
Still keto yesterday. 2MAD. Stress eat. Some orange and green veges snuck past the teeth last night after a 300km drive home from the city. But I did have chicken terrine and hothouse smoked salmon rolled up in Swiss cheese slices. At the work cafe for breakfast at lunch (NoFUN) I had a bbq chicken wrap. I unwrapped it and ate the chicken and egg and some green leaves. It had a sweetish Hollandaise that was unavoidable. My office bound, air-conditioned work mates were eating pizza and packets of chocolate biscuits as they were left over from an orientation week morning tea. I had two triple shot coffees with cream to get through a day in the office.
My boss’s mum is suddenly sick in hospital in Singapore (where she lives), and he jumped on a plane while sending me a text message,”Need you to cover for me.” Unfortunately I found I can do the management parts of his job as well as doing my job. I couldn’t teach his lectures. I hope the top brass don’t notice as I have been working hard at not being promoted into management for the past 3 years.
It was sunny so I walked in the campus gardens. The protea (South African plant) flowers are coming into bloom (pictured). The crazy thing here is that the blooms are $10 each from a florist. They are a popular and sought after cut flower. There are bushes of these flowers, up to 50 per plant, just in the gardens around one of the campus cafes.
JJFiddle
(Judy Thompson)
#215
Well. We are all over the place today!
I watched a Shawn Baker You Tube video yesterday where I heard (again) that if he’s serious on carnivore, there will be times when it’s okay for him to have a slice of chocolate cake and then he can jump right back on carni. I have also heard Ken Berry say the same thing. I told hubby that. He said, why go to a party? Let’s just make some here! 
But I guess my version of cake is a glass of beer at the roadhouse when we play, or at the brewery. Most people can easily understand my not eating cake, but the bartender at the brewery brings the beer whether I ask for it or not. I seem to survive it.
I tried mushrooms and got a stomach ache at the Korean hot pot restaurant a couple months ago when this fungi conversation came up previously here. I would agree that each person’s food sensitivities are individual and not only that, each is in his own place on his own path. I will say that when I read Dr. Saladino’s book, he read like a pompous a$$ and I couldn’t help but think he was going a little far, and look where he ended up. Not that it’s a bad thing but he was SO like, “I only eat beef and water. You may do as you wish but your health will never equal mine,” and then he totally flipped. I think you can go too strict and risk REALLY falling off the carnival pony.
Today we walked 2 1/2 miles in the morning - lots lots more than I’ve done in recent times, but we’re going early when it’s cool and getting an hour in with the puppy. Hubby has started walking along with me so it’s a pleasant morning time for us all. Then home, and coffee before starting the day.
At about 11 I had some tuna and hard boiled egg salad with mayo, then taught a lesson at 1:15, and about 3 we had hamburger and I had 2 eggs with mine. Tonight, the last of that tuna salad and a little chicken salad left from the other day. Nice - too much at night disturbs my sleep!
Azi
(Linda )
#216
Yeah on the mushroom stint I have had the odd meal which I’ve included mushroom but that was back when I first started… the longer tme in the less times things get added i cant tell you when the last time i had any myshrooms I add spices on some meat and nothing on orhers
I found the longer on carnivore I dont need extras the keto chow being my exception and coffee
But im not perfect. But is perfect for me. I think the longer on plan I get, my whole out look has changed when I first joined into carnivore it was straight after I hit goal from keto…back then my focuss was on weight and the gaining coming that happened after getting off keto…
Now im plodding along enjoying life its been a year and a half and although I’ve not got back to goal weight I’m still in a 4 or 6 and what’s more I eat when I’m hungry don’t count a thing and I haven’t gained all my weight back thats the big thing…I haven’t fallen off I don’t have any real cravings …and I enjoy my food its win win. In my book
Fangs
#217
anyone can justify any food they desire to eat. every single person can do just that for themselves.
I can do mushrooms. I did when I started. hard to give up cause I loved them but longer on carni, like Azi said above I dumped them cause I don’t require extras. why bother even buying them? they only took money away from my meat to buy LOL Most people can handle them with no gut issues so it is one of those I wanna eat mushrooms, so there, I am HA but they are not carnivore and won’t ever be 
@FrankoBear, ok I read your medicinal honey 
it isn’t daily of course so it is cool ya do something you feel works for you when needed. Your covid journey sounds wild. I hope I AM done and it doesn’t morph on me.
------------------used one of MIL’s covid home test kits and yea, said I got covid, positive hit yesterday when I used it.
So woke up feeling great. I know I am good cause my eyes are not hot. Hot eyes mean I got something, but this morning woke up to no heat in my eyes and that to me is a good thing. So day 1 was super sick. Day 2 was little sick and recovering. Now Day 3 and I feel great. Guts, not sure. Kinda feel the meds are gonna take me out a little but will cut back meds today by alot.
food yesterday was 3 scrambled with tad of cheddar melted, 1 beef stick, 2 bites of steak stolen off hubby’s plate (before he loaded the darn steak with icky A1 steak sauce, at least I got to rob 2 hunks)
today won’t be much. I feel like the body wants to get the dreaded D kinda but haven’t really eaten so will see how that goes down.
I hope I am done. I do not want that timeline that FB stated he went thru. We shall see where this goes but tummy is icky off a bit from meds also so food won’t be a big draw today but I am hungrier so I will find something to eat, just not sure what.
Soldier on strong ZC all
PrimalBrian
#218
I haven’t kept up with his writings of late. What do you mean by “flipped?” Has he relaxed his stance on certain things/foods such that he now reads a little more flexible? Just curious to see if/how his approach and recommendations have evolved or changed, in your view.