It's interesting

(Oliver ) #1

How low carb, keto and fasting seems pretty outdated these days… Everywhere except here basically… .

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #2

Really?
In the UK most people have never heard of it!
Everyone knows someone who is T2 or Pre T2 … when I preach Keto most people are excited about passing the word onto a family member. I’m excited too :smiley:

(Oliver ) #3

Really? What sounds cool. Where I lived (Sweden) I would say that keto and low carb was very popular for quite some time which I think you tell in different ways… For example by which books that was promoted in the book stores. Also I would also say that there is a few other things that have changed.

#4

Paleo is popular in my country and people usually do it low-carb, sometimes extreme low-carb. I met paleo first and started with it myself. It was too carby so I changed that soon.
Keto? I met one person who tried it this far, it’s true I am a hermit but I saw exactly one item that said “keto” on it too (it was a very regular, carby oatmeal with fruits, by the way. but one tiny packet had less than 20g carbs…).

At least people went from “table sugar is NEEDED” to “table sugar is unhealthy”, it’s something.
I would do without pushing meatless diets (it’s quite fine to be a vegetarian, I was that for several years, no regrets but I have something better now. but DON’T try to force it on normal people, seriously) and all the BS but at least most people have the chance to decide what to eat… Could be worse.

Fasting is individual, it’s fine if it’s not very popular, IMO - but it’s very wrong to think fasting is bad and that’s a popular belief :frowning: I wish no one forced breakfast on me when I was a child. I hated it. (No idea why I accepted it, I must have been a nice, obedient one despite whatever Mom said.) Breakfast is about the worst thing that can happen to me woe wise, I would rather eat high-carb (and it’s not ideal for me but tolerable if needed) than breakfast. (In my mother language, breakfast has the word of “morning” in it and “morning” lasts until about 9am so don’t tell me my first meal is breakfast, not to me.)

I actually feel this forum pushes for fasting a bit too much (but it’s probably not many people, it just happens sometimes, people being biased because they actually can fast and it is good for them). And the opposite when one is a newbie. It’s fine to fast from day 1 if it suits us. If keto would require no IF until fat adaptation, I would have never tried it :wink: IF is how I live, many people do it on high-carb.
Fasting is individual. Some people never should do it, some can’t not do it. I can’t do EF without carbs (well, more carbs than my carnivore ones) but IF is very much how I live, I can’t not do it except occasionally and those days aren’t my best ones. I do OMAD now but that’s as far as it can get, sadly. My body wants food every day and a decent amount of it.

At least I don’t have memories about pushing for little fat until recently… Maybe I was blissfully ignorant but maybe it wasn’t very strong here. Now there is something but people ignore it, mostly… Fatty food is very very popular here but how else would one eat?
The problem is the accompanying tons of carbs. People giving up their carbs… That’s not popular at all, not even when there are very bad health problems that almost surely would get better with less carbs.
But of course, even the official dietary advice is horrible :frowning: It has good points - but mostly bad. I only read it maybe a year ago but was shocked. Not very surprised though.

By the way, a relative of mine with obesity, fresh diabetes diagnosis and other health problems read a book about people with diabetes should eat lots of carbs.
Fortunately she followed the doctor’s advice. Mostly. It’s quite indulgent as no one can expect people changing their diet really drastically when it’s only about their health and life but better than keeping eating sugar like no tomorrow.

(Chuck) #5

This is what I know from my experience, fasting works, and moderately low carb also works, but together they are unbeatable, for my body and my health.

(Bob M) #6

My wife’s sister and her family live in Sweden. It’s an interesting mix of quite hardy people (sometimes I wonder if this is in part to how cold the water is there :wink:) and yet some ideas like fika. My wife’s sister leans more vegetarian than meat-eating, though she does eat meat. I’m amazed at the amount of carbs they eat. But I’m only looking at one family.

(Chuck) #7

I find with myself it is the fasting that is the most important thing. I do eat more carbs than recommended by this forum, but less carbs than what is recommended by the Standard American Diet. But I do know that I have digestive issues with too many carbs and also certain carbs. I for the most part don’t eat anything with wheat, and I eat very little grain.

(Bob M) #8

That family doesn’t fast. When I was in Sweden or CA (we met them also in the Bay Area), I was aghast at how many times a day they ate. But when you eat 2 times a day (like me) or those of you who eat within a narrow window, I find most people eat way too many times per day. Including my own kids.

#9

I manage to eat OMAD now. But sometimes I NEED 5 meals as I just get satiated too quickly (to the point that I can’t eat more. if I get satiated normally, I keep eating, no problem).
It’s not the only reason I totally understand people eating many times. I heard about people being unable eating more than 300 kcal, of course they need many meals, it’s fine and even if not fine, it’s way better than starving.
It’s still strange to me as my family always had decent sized meals (I mean, not tiny ones. others may call them big) so that feels normal to me. But I am aware others can eat like a bird and get satiated for long with it. Fascinating.

I understand different carb “needs” too. I am fine with someone eating 1000g carbs a day if that works for them. Each to their own. Not everyone can eat 300g fat with a comparable little protein and tiny carbs! Some people handle carbs well. It still shouldn’t be a ton of added sugar or fruit as far as I know but there are other options.

I still think many people would benefit from low-carb and less meals alike and I am sure I am right… We know how horribly too many people eat… And it’s one thing when they enjoy it (still can be very wrong, of course) but when they eat all day just because there is a belief that it’s the right thing, oh my. And it’s not just some stubborn old myth, official dietary advice says so. I feel sorry for everyone who suffer with many meals when they would be so much happier and healthier with less.

(Edith) #10

Everywhere except here on this forum or “here” in The United States?

I live in the US, and by the amount keto foods I am seeing on the store shelves in regular grocery stores, I don’t think keto is outdated.

(Chuck) #11

I live in the USA as a veteran I go to the VA health clinics, I am seeing a huge split between doctors and nurses on the subject of the Standard American Diet, Keto, and fasting. My doctor is coming around to seeing the benefits of lowering carbs and fasting. Other are screaming that you will starve if you fast and if you eat low carbs you will kill your self. I personally find it laughable and shake my head. I am doing moderately low carb and I fast for 19 hours a day most days of the week. I am 75 years old,I have done my own research and I have experienced with pure keto, dirty keto, and fasting. For my wellbeing I find fasting and moderately low carb to be my best option. To be honest I knowingly eat what I want to but limit when I eat it. So I guess my point is fast, feast and repeat is my answer. Now my normal response is eat real food, stay away from highly processed and refined foods, stay away from fast food, stay away from soft drinks even diet soda. Do I sometimes break my rules? Yes, when needed but it seldom happens. Vacations, friends and family are important and I have learned to bend he rules as necessary. Since September of this last year I have lost 46 pounds, I have lost 12 inches from my waist, and I have lost 5 inches from my upper thighs. When I look a the inches lost I would have expected more weight loss but when I do a body composition test it shows I have even at my age gained muscle mass.

(Doug) #12

:smile: Well, Chuck, it’s good that there is some discussion, anyway.

(Rossi Luo) #13

Yeah, it’s quite ironic that many big fat unhealthy doctors or nurses are still believing in their outdated “knowledges” on the diet things.
Actually in my area, most of the doctors or nurses don’t know ketogenic diet at all, my feeling when I see such a big fat unhealthy doctors is that I am a human beings contacted with aliens and everyone around me thinks I am a psycho.

(Chuck) #14

I had a nurse that I am sorry to say looked like a marshmallow tell me that the only viable diet solution was the SAD, standard American diet. My comment almost got me thrown out of the clinic. I said I am old enough to remember when SAD was mandated, people were slimmer, obesity wasn’t an issue, diabetes was only known to be T1. Very few men had big stomachs, and most women had a real female figure. That was at the time TV was pushing sugar load cereals, hamburger helper and the other so call crap. So tell me again that the SAD is good for us.

(Doug) #15

The SAD is good for you.

:smile: Just kidding, Chuck. I remember past times too - as kids we were in Chicago one time, and my cousin blurted out, “Hey, look at that big old fat man!” It was unusual. Same in my elementary school - this was ages 6 to 12. There was “the fat kid,” just one out of hundreds of people.

(Edith) #16

My kids will take issue with me and my husband when we talk about fat people in general. They say we are “fat shaming.” I told them, it is not fat shaming. They just don’t know how things have changed since we were kids, that - just like you said - there was only one fat child among hundreds in our elementary schools. That it is shocking to us how the weight and health of the general public as changed so much in what feels like a relatively short period of time. They have no comparisons.

(Doug) #17

No doubt. It’s quite a jump back to pictures of crowds of people in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. While things were changing in the 80s and 90s, I think they’re still changing today, and not for the better, overall.

What hits me these days is really young people (in the U.S.), like ages 3 to 15. Obesity, what looks like textbook insulin resistance to me, and the poor kid is toddling around. Sugary drinks, cheap carbohydrates that you can microwave quickly, fast food… At that early age, and already their cells, pancreas, liver, etc., are being affected.

(Bob M) #18

That’s because junk food is not only everywhere but expected. You have a party of some sort, you’re getting cakes, pizza, etc. And schedules have built-in times for snacks, which we don’t need. And people (particularly women/girls) are vegetarian from young ages now. And school cafeterias are bad. And “meatless” Mondays or whatever are everywhere. And candy and junk food is everywhere in schools. And I could go on…

An aside: This is one reason I’m reluctant to buy into the “seed oils are the cause of obesity” argument. The environment has changed so much, while seed oil intake has increased, everything is too different for me to believe it’s ONLY seed oils that are the problem.

(Doug) #19

:roll_eyes::neutral_face::smile: Institutionalized insanity.

My wife teaches high school. At the district and school level, snacking is a battle they’ve chosen not to fight. Candy, chips, crisps, fries, takis… Kids getting into fights over food, in class. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Man, when I was in school, there wasn’t any eating in class.

Somewhere in here there’s something about a ‘handbasket,’ I think. :smile:

(Joey) #20

How I wish this were true!

Like @VirginiaEdie, I’m seeing increasing shelf space consumed with “keto” products, books, Youtube content, etc. exploding on the topic.

However, upon closer inspection, a majority of these “keto” products are anything but … between reading the ingredients and the carb content, it’s appalling that they’re being presented as “keto” foods.

An increasing proportion of “keto” content on YouTube is also BS.

In short, I wish “keto” would actually become outdated, so the scammers and mislabeling marketing budgets would move on to dupe people about other (less consequential) topics.