Dear David
It sounds like your symptoms are serious and I would suggest going for a total general examination of your whole body. I dont think anybody here can do that for you and suggestions of different diets for this is like a pin in the haystack kind of logic. It might not be the diet at all, but some underlying illness you have that has now surfaced and is giving you symptoms. I`ll give you an example of a kind of analogy. A friend of mine wanted to travel to Asia and was told she needed all sorts of vaccinations. One of them was against Hepatitis. She had an unusual reaction to it in that she turned yellow. This was a sign for her doctor to examine her from head to toe, and they found pancreatic cancer in its earliest stages. She had an operation, chemo, and survived- been 7 years since then. How lucky it was for her body to give her that sign so early, so the cancer could be removed before sending out mets. What I am saying is that it could be something totally different and keto is only a vehicle for this to express itself now. I do not think that eating keto is suddenly the cause for so much discomfort if you tolerated it so well before, and any kind of cloudy urine should be examined BY A DOCTOR right away!!! It could simply be that your body is not tolerating keto right now for a very different, underlying reason!!
And in addition- your cytopenia could very possibly be only one symptom of a larger picture of autoimmune disease. There are autoimmune illnesses which present with more than one symptom, and you arthritic pains along with kidney problems could be part of a larger complex. Get that checked too. Not sure a haematologist is the right address. An autoimmune specialist might be better, because blood problems might only by one piece of the puzzle of a larger autoimmune illness- like add kidney and joint problems to the picture and a different diagnosis might be found.
It seems that the ketogenic diet is making me ill
Yes I have been increasing exercise, especially strength training. I can’t say how much bone remodeling has been going on but my DEXA scans have been showing accelerating bone loss. At first it was minor and my bone density was quite high for my body weight. I figured some bone loss was likely typical for rapid weight loss, since I had just lost 25% of my body weight I could probably afford to lose some bone too. On my last DEXA despite gaining lean mass while still losing fat my previous rate of bone loss which was already becoming alarming had doubled again. I’ve also had rapidly falling blood cell counts which are now below the reference range so it is getting concerning. Frustrating that I’ve been unable so far to find any medical professional with any experience treating chronic lead poisoning in adults.
Many thanks for all your replies. Since I stopped Keto my pain in the lower back went instantly. Urinating a lot a night stopped, and the cloudy urine stopped. Thus I conclude that I was very dehydrated, yet I drank at least 1 to 2 liters a day. I do take multi-vitamins, but my body can’t tolerate these keto mineral pills. I was also feeling quite weak which is the opposite of what most people say that they get loads of energy. Right from the beginning of me doing Keto I never felt energetic. Well I’ve already put weight on (haven’t weighed my self yet) as my belt size has increased (not happy with). So I’m going to have to go on a low-carb diet. I’ll slowly work my way into the low carb diet. I’m eating healthy which I always have. I do actually feel a lot better. I slowly work out a diet plan for myself. From what I’ve read and spoken to people in the ‘health world’ Keto diets are just for starting out, getting rid of excess weight quickly but not for long term. 4 years ago I tried the Blood Sugar Diet
by Michael Mosley, but he says only do it for 8-12 weeks max.
So I think I’ll go back and forth from low-carb to BSD over the next year or two.Even though I did find Keto effective I don’t think my body can handle it.
Many thanks for your replies.
I’ve missed some posts in this thread so apologies if this was already covered, but lots of water will deplete your electrolytes, and we need more electrolytes on keto. Were you careful to get enough sodium? It’s the sodium that seems to keep the other levels (potassium, magnesium) in balance. Low electrolytes = low energy and other issues.
Looking at that entire post it looks to me like a genetic predisposition (alleles) of some one who claims to be vegetarian but was eating some serious sugar (cake, donuts, cookies etc.) for a long-time?
Not enough vitamin K in the diet?
It would have been easier to just eat some grass fed meat and butter to get some real K? With some cold pressed Cod liver oil would have even been better? Westin Price style…lol
Bunny I can’t remember was it the 9p21 allele homozygous that Dr. Brewer has? I think it was.
It does take the heat off him a bit for having an atherosclerotic plaque and does justify the use of a statin as it is therapeutic in that specific case. Not generally therapeutic for everyone with a high LDL count.
It makes more sense as I’ve been listening to the Dr. Agaston interview by Ivor Cummins:
Oxalate toxicity manifest as oxalate dumping. Classic symptoms of increased urinating, cloudy urine and back pain.
Did @Eppy detail his ketogenic foods? Were they high in: spinach, almonds, nut butters, nut flours, chard, dark chocolate, black or green tea, spices (I think they were mentioned). Then a weight loss plateau, did that eating change? Possibly from high to low oxalate.
Moving to carnivore diet to treat rheumatoid arthritis is an idea but may need a strong caveat of care and awareness of oxalate toxicity. The joint symptoms in oxalate dumping can feel a lot like those described in peripheral diabetic neuropathy and those described in early rheumatoid arthritis.
Noticing the stated increased “risk” does not mean that it is inevitable.
It just blows me away people will risk there life to be defined as a something (status as a vegetarian) to prove that definition as something that’s better?
‘If you don’t eat animals you will be the golden standard of health?’
Yeah right?
Eat animal crackers instead…lol
Thats from diabetes.co.uk a rather different and (in my opinion) far better place…
Don’t get me started on Losartan. It made me quite sick, to the point that I was diagnosed with COPD because I had huge issues breathing, my sinuses were constantly stuffed, and I was always thirsty, thirsty, and peeing all the time. I happened to run out of it, thought I had another bottle, but no. Ordered it (I get meds by mail) and it took 2 weeks to arrive. Meanwhile, I was feeling a lot better, not breathing hard, not as thirsty. I took the first pill and - bam! Breathing issues, unquenchable thirst, peeing constantly. Since I am well aware that correlation is not causation, I waited a week and then took another pill. Was fine for that week, took the pill and - bam. I have totally stopped taking it, I do not tolerate the side effects well. Perhaps, without the Losartan, you would not be as thirsty and would not need the electrolytes as much? If I were you, I would look up the side effects of all your meds and see if there is a culprit among them. We don’t all metabolize the same chemicals the same way.
A bit of a late response, but I was just listening to a podcast and it got me thinking about your post again. At approx. 1hr19 mins in the link below she starts talking about how cloudy urine can be a symptom of oxolate flushing that happens when someone switches from a high to low oxolate diet.
Going off keto presumably would increase your consumption of oxalates if you’re eating wheat, potatoes etc. and so may be switching your body back into absorbing rather than excreting? Just something to bear in mind if you go back onto keto at any point and find that your cloudy urine, back pain and sleep difficulties return as these are all potential symptoms of your body trying to rid itself of oxalates. Second the recommendation to mention it to your GP when you see them though to rule out an underlying medical condition.
Personally after experiencing a flare up in my eczema and joint pain again which keto wasn’t helping with I’ve joined in with world carnivore month (less catchy than veganuary) and my knees and back are hurting a lot less after only a week.
I think ultimately the benefit of strict carnivore (just ruminant-based) is that it removes pretty much everything from the diet that might be causing a problem, and therefore speeds up healing compared to playing around with multiple factors. It’s also nice to avoid a massive list of rules of what, how much, and when to eat, and to just eat fatty meat and drink water. That said, I know I’m coming from a keto background so going ‘zerocarb’ is less of shock to my body.
I’m glad you’re feeling better and I think that being less stressed makes a huge difference so if keto is causing you stress then it might not be best for you.
@VirginiaEdie you’ve sent me down the rabbit hole with this one!
I would add that eating keto can also increase consumption of oxalate because on keto we tend to eat “healthy” greens and lots of nuts. We also make SAD substitutes using almond flour. These tend to be high in oxalate.
I believe that’s the problem I ran into as a result of eating Keto. I am now carnivore and I do believe I am experiencing oxalate dumping on occasion because carnivore is the ultimate low, well really zero, oxalate diet.
I think I am experiencing the same thing. My joint pain actually improved when I took a break from keto over christmas, but my eczema and sleep got a lot worse and the itching was driving me crazy so I went almost-carnivore which was carnivore plus green veggies. But a week of having creamed spinach every day and not only was my knee pain back but I started getting pain in my fingers which I hadn’t experienced before.
My new plan has been to stop over-thinking it and just eat ruminants and their offal. I can get a whole lamb for cheap here from the local farm so that’s what I will be eating mostly! I used to eat a lot of nut porridge and spinach so I’m hoping the oxalate dumping isn’t too bad but I have noticed some teeth pain and flaking skin already. But, my depression is a lot better and my eczema is improving so overall I’m feeling positive about it!
I dont eat almost any green leaf plants at all ( and never have all my life, now aged nearly 70 ). I might have an occasional bit of lettuce ( nutrition value almost 0 ) and even rarer a bit of cabbage or brussell sprouts in a soup, but thats it. I suppose I’m quasi carnivore but like a few berries ( and heaven forbid ) a few peas and onions as well. I never actually liked the taste of spinach or kale and the like. The more I read about them, the more damming is the information and reported bad health results.
Hey guys. I’ve been on the Keto diet for 16 days now. I was in the optimum ketosis bracket earlier tonight. But now I am on negative / very low (urine test sticks). I haven’t eaten since lunch due to having severe Diarrhea earlier. Why am I out of ketosis??? How long before I get back into Ketosis?!
Help!
Hi Brendan. Welcome to the forum. Sorry about the diarrhoea.
You are probably in nutritional ketosis if you are eating very low carbohydrate or fasting and not doing anything to stimulate insulin release. You are just not spilling one type of ketone (aceto-acetate) into the urine. The better way to track is to check blood glucose and extrapolate a low glucose to a low insulin state. Or directly track blood ketones. Dietary change can create diarrhoea. Fasting is s good idea versus diarrhoea. But keep up your fluids and electrolytes (salt) Keep Calm and Keto On. KCKO
A high level of ketones is not required. Would you say that we’re good in glucose metabolism if our glucose is through the roof? 
People get fat adapted with time and their ketone levels drop. My ketone breath levels used to be around 2.5, now they’re around 1.0 after half a year of keto.
As @FrankoBear said, if you’re not eating carbs then you’re in ketosis or you’re dead.