It is not only sugar

[amwassil]

So, I’m trying to take something away from here, you think it is mostly butyrate that needs to be added to the diet?

In case anyone missed it. β-hydroxybutyrate is a ketone. As in keto, ketosis, etc. You do not have to eat this stuff, your own body makes it and feeds it to whatever and whomever needs it, including your so-called gut biome. Oh, right, if you’re not eating keto or in ketosis, then you’d have to eat something with butyrate in it to be healthy. I think that’s probably why we evolved to make this stuff ourselves. Just in case we couldn’t find edible carbs lying around with significant butyrate content. Which for most of our evolution was the way it was.

[atomicspacebunny]

In case anyone missed it. β-hydroxy butyrate is a ketone . As in keto, ketosis, etc. You do not have to eat this stuff, your own body makes it and feeds it to whatever and whomever needs it, including your so-called gut biome.

Exogenous supplementation of butyrate Parmesan cheese, grass fed butter (secondary MCT’s):

•You can eat butyrate; problem is, that it never makes it to your lower colon and your body is burning it up for fuel.

Endogenous creation of butyrate by gut microbiome:

•Your own body makes butyrate as long as the microbiome that make it are fed (resistant starch).

No resistant starch or non-digestible carbohydrates to feed butyrate producing bacteria?

•When you eat only meat those bacteria that produce butyrate die off and MicroRNA’s from the animal protein fill your lower colon, rectum (rectal cancer) and work there way up to the upper gastrointestinal tract and start cancer angiogenesis and your only antidote is resistant starch?

•Listening to Shawn Baker (another victim of Tom foolery) as I write this and letters to him (“world going carnivore” vlog entry) from avid devotees about so called health improvements (supposed microbiome?) due to switching to the carnivore diet?

•When you eat only meat it leeches excess calcium from your entire body (as a CAC scan will show) but after that it starts leeching from your bones and teeth and you end up with brittle bones; as time will be very telling?

Anyone who claims to eat only animal proteins and fats for an X amount of years should be subject to strict scrutiny about there honesty?

[amwassil]

That’s why all those skeletons of our hunter/gatherer ancestors show marked loss of bone density… Oh, wait.

With the Advent of Agriculture, Human Bones Dramatically Weakened

[atomicspacebunny]

Maybe? But if your only eating ribeyes (…if your wealthy enough to do so…lol) and no cheese or non-pasteurized animal milk, pasteurized (removes all the beneficial enzymes and other unknown and known essential nutrients)?

[amwassil]

And if you only eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and Twinkies. Not maybe.

[atomicspacebunny]

I don’t think ancient people would be eating peanut butter and jelly samiches or twinkies?

They would be eating Whole Foods but bone density has more to do with lack of fats and raw milk (calcium) to process vitamin K and D (cholesterol) and then you have increase in dietary carbohydrates so dietary fats get reduced due to availability of other cheaper types of foods like grains? You do get calcium from plants to but you need fat to make it useful and when you throw lots of glucose into the mix it (calcium) sticks to your veins and arteries rather than going to bones and teeth.

Now according to people like Dr. Berry “…you don’t need to eat calcium?” Something wrong with that kind of thinking when your telling people only to eat meat and go carnivore?

One things is certain and definite, eating only meat will strip your bones and teeth of calcium and throw your nitrogen balance into chaos eventually regardless of philosophies or projected theories about the “…onset of agriculture and weak bones…” period.

[amwassil]

They didn’t have ribeyes either. They were eating the whole animal (‘head to tail’) and by all available evidence were healthier than their plant-eating descendants, including most of us now. Stop moving the goal posts. Eating only meat and no fat leads to ‘rabbit starvation’, which is protein poisoning. We’ve already had that discussion elsewhere. No one advocates that and you know so. You keep conflating foods we have available now, 12K years into the agricultural age, with what was available during most of human evolution. Our ancestors got calcium by eating bones, and you could do the same with no need for any dairy whatsoever. They got all the minerals and vitamins they needed from muscle and organ meats, bones and marrow. Plants during the Pleistocene and before were so nutrient dilute, it was hardly worth time and effort to gather them. You would expend more energy collected than you got from eating.

[Arbre]

Do you have any reference about “Plants during the Pleistocene and before were so nutrient dilute, it was hardly worth time and effort to gather them”? No judgement at all, I am purely interested to know.

[atomicspacebunny]

They were eating the whole animal (‘head to tail’) and by all available evidence were healthier than their plant-eating descendants, including most of us now. Stop moving the goal posts.

Rabbit starvation comes from eating only rabbits…lol

What proof do have that they only ate animals? They were most certainly eating plants? I can definitely see grains (“onset of agriculture“) having there proper place in the picture your painting?

As far as your goal posts are concerned: moving them is a two way street?

Paradox is not a goal post, it is a set of contradictions that reach the conclusions of a stated point? Somewhere in those variables is the truth?

[amwassil]

@Arbre

What Fruits And Vegetables Looked Like Before We Domesticated Them

For anyone who happens to think our paleolithic ancestors derived more than a pittance of nutrition from plant foods, here’s what some of them were before we domesticated and selectively bred them to be what we know today. Please realize that only a few examples follow. Virtually every plant product we eat has been selectively bred.

Prehistoric Hunter-Gatherer Societies

Not too long or technical and a good read. Select Bibliography at the bottom for references.

Meat-Eating Among the Earliest Humans

Evidence of meat-eating among our distant human ancestors is hard to find and even harder to interpret, but researchers are beginning to piece together a coherent picture. Over the course of six million years of human evolution, brain size increased 300 percent. Our huge, complex brains can store and process decades worth of information in split seconds, solve multifactorial problems, and create abstract ideas and images. This would have been a big advantage to early humans as they were spre…

The Mammoth Steppe

This is a map of the distribution of the Woolly Mammoth taken from here. I presume it’s the max range, which was between 30-20K years ago just before the last glacial max started to retreat. Everything above the red and all mountains within the red were glaciated. In North Amercia, most of the area west of the red was glaciated except for a thin ice free strip along the Pacific coast. [image] I selected this map because it corresponds pretty much exactly to the Mammoth Steppe. I know some folk…

[amwassil]

Rabbit starvation comes from eating only rabbits…lol

It is acute, severe protein poisoning resulting from eating too much protein and too little fat. It’s a terrible way to die and no joke.

[atomicspacebunny]

…and all that is speculation, hypothesis and theories?

As stated before; that still does not prove exclusivity that ancient people ate only animals and common sense would tell you that; no ideation from your sources needed?

[atomicspacebunny]

It is acute, severe protein poisoning resulting from eating too much protein and too little fat. It’s a terrible way to die and no joke.

Really? Hmmmm? That’s a real head scratcher?

[Natasha]

This is my chocolate recipe, I find it delicious…

25g - cocoa butter
25g - 85 or 90% chocolate
150g - crunchy peanut butter
2 tbsp HWC
Stevia drops to taste

Melt all together in a pan then pour into individual muffin cases (use a muffin tray!)

[OldDog]

that still does not prove exclusivity that ancient people ate only animals

Who is making that claim?

Speaking of fiber…
Do you know what a straw man argument is?

[atomicspacebunny]

Who is making that claim?

The person quoting the text to be observed as proof in concept?

Speaking of fiber…
Do you know what a straw man argument is?

”…A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be “attacking a straw man”. …” …More

So who is the strawman? (or strawbunny…lol)

• The one who is not (or is) taking into considering the public health and safety of other people?

• Or the one who wants everyone to believe in his or her theories without debate, scientific scrutiny, long term efficacy; that humans only eat meat and there can be no other food for humans other than meat and fat or animal proteins and fats irregardless of harm to other people?

[Backspin]

Oh joy. Yet another pissing contest

[OldDog]

Mostly rhetoric…

[amwassil]

@Arbre I have a personal anecdote to add.

When your fat stores aren't sufficient / periodized carbs

No doubt anything edible was consumed when discovered, including leftovers from another animal’s kill. Our ancestors scavenged as much as they hunted. What many of us forget, however, is that during the glacial maxima of the Pleistocene the available flora was very different from what it is now. Even in the tropics and subtropics which were glaciated only at high elevations, the overall temps were lower and edible flora very different. Consider this. I lived for the better part of a decade at L…

[OldDog]

Most if not all we see in our produce sections of the grocery store were not available 100 years ago, much less available to our pre-agricultural ancestors…
If they were available, they hardly resembled what we see to today, neither nutritionally or visually.

Not that some of them cannot be valuable sources of nutrition, but it lends thought to the idea that any of this stuff is nutritionally essential.