Introduction, superfoods and why Keto makes you more efficient?

(KM) #1

Hi everyone, I am trying Keto neither for diabetes or weight or appearance. Infact I am quite skinny (62 kg). I just am intrigued by the mental and energy benefits publicised on this diet because fatigue and concentration has been an issue in my life with conventional diet and have noted subjective evidence in my own life that has made me feel carbs are an important factor playing a big role towards sluggishness. Given this context I have two starter questions.

One of the questions I want to ask is what happens to the good food honey, dates, berries, lentils and all the other superfoods publicised on the net and the good micronutrients they might be having in them. Do some people incorporate small amounts of dense-carb small volume super foods which they believe should be indispensable and wether it ruins their whole Keto diet goals? Micronutrient deficiency and avoiding certain superfoods because of Keto is a concern which I would be interested in knowing how people address.

Second question is what is it people hypothesize which makes them feel good about Keto diet. Is it a powerful placebo or is it that it drives you to eat small amounts and any low-volume diet would make people feel good or is it that the actual ketones in blood make you feel better in energy, mood, concentration. I see alot of people combine it with intermittent fasting thus overlapping the two seperate concepts and the benefits are clouded as to which one is the dominant strategy bringing positive effect. The actual energy and concentration factor. What makes people feel better is it relative starvation or ketosis?

(Janelle) #2

“Superfood” is a marketing term.

I’m on this way of eating to lose weight, which will then help me with arthritis, hbp and the like. At almost 4 months, I’m not getting all the “non scale victories” that people tout but I can survive this Xmas season without gaining weight and that’s something.

(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #3

Janelle

I was keto lite for 3 years and say some NSV after a year. But HBP is not one of them. Went strict keto and started to see some slight improvements at 4+ months. Now 5 months in and HBP is starting to come down in a noticeable way. I suspect it will take a year or more to get off 2 of my 3 meds.

Not gaining weight at the holidays is a benefit.

Happy Holidays.

(Laura) #4

I eat berries and nuts. Berries are relatively low in sugar. Greens are good and I enjoy lettuce and spinach. As long as you keep your carbs at the level where you are in ketosis.

I eat more calories than I ever did while following the Low Fat-High Carb model and I lose weight. I can also easily maintain when I choose. I am not starving all day and I don’t get any mood swings from blood sugar rising and sinking all day long. I sleep better and at my age of 58, I am still on synthroid (since I was 22) and zyrtec for allergies. Others my age are already on a handful of meds for various things associated with aging.

My energy levels are through the roof and better than when I was much younger and I sleep better and need less.

I think I am carb sensitive and giving up the sugar, bread and other processed foods years ago was the best thing I ever did for myself.

If you try it, give it a good chance. You can always try something else. I am reading Keto Clarity right now and it is very goid.

(Carl Keller) #5

For someone like you (on the thin side and metabolically healthy), I don’t think varied amounts of fructose is going to be a big deal. Most of us here have hormonal issues and fructose definitely contributes to weight gain and should be minimal or avoided. I believe someone such as yourself can likely eat 2x-4x more carbs and maintain a ketogenic state.

The three things that I “suffer” deficiencies from a vitamin and mineral standpoint are potassium, magnesium and vitamin D. I wouldn’t necessarily call it “suffering” because I know I am getting much more of those things than I was on the SAD. I’m generally 30-50% of the RDA on P, M and VD but all my other percentages have never been higher. I’m typically 70-90% of the RDA for all micronutrients.

For me, I totally know it’s not a placebo effect. I was told about Keto by a man who told me he lost 60 pounds in 6 months. He very briefly explained what keto was, but not everything keto did. With very minimal research about the effects of keto, I fairly spontaneously decided to try it for a week. Three days later, I noticed the boost in energy, reduction of bodily inflammation and increased brain efficiency. These perks completely surprised me and I had no idea this was coming. For those three things alone, this WOE is totally worth the effort. I literally feel 20 years younger and my attitude, demeanor, endurance, patience and so much more have improved more than I thought possible.

I believe it all begins when we stop poisoning our bodies with processed sugars and foods. Once we start healing, everything becomes more efficient.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

Honey and dates are not generally considered part of a well-formulated ketogenic diet, because of their high sugar content. Sucrose (table sugar) is a composite molecule formed from one glucose molecule and one fructose molecule. The glucose is what stimulates insulin secretion, with all the attendant problems of a chronic high serum insulin level. The fructose can be metabolized only in the liver, and it is dealt with by the same pathway that the liver uses to deal with ethyl alcohol. Eating fructose in excess of the liver’s limited ability to handle it leads to the same problems as excessive alcohol consumption: fatty liver disease leading to steatohepatitis and eventually cirrhosis and even death, hepatic insulin resistance, and so forth. Fructose can also have the same addictive effect as ethanol.

Many berries are low enough in sugar that they can form part of a ketogenic diet, in moderate quantities. Lentils are basically starch, and therefore will stimulate quite a bit of insulin secretion. Since a ketogenic diet is intended to be a low-insulin diet, most ketonians therefore avoid lentils. There is some evidence that it is possible to obtain all necessary micronutrients even while eating almost no carbohydrate, whether one’s diet is vegetarian keto, or whether it is meat-based keto.

The benefits are increased endurance from fat-adaptation, and enhanced mental clarity—because the brain loves to metabolize the ketone body β-hydroxybutyrate in place of glucose. Metabolic health—the reversal of diabetes, pre-diabetes, and insulin resistance, the normalization of lipids, the healing of cardiovascular disease and the consequent greatly reduced risk of heart attack and stroke, the lowering of blood pressure, that sort of thing. Although a ketogenic diet is often used as an aid to losing fat, it is also useful in adding lean tissue and increasing bone density.

(Cindy) #7

For the first question, I think you need to evaluate whether or not you can get (or really need) those nutrients in keto food sources. Do you believe those foods are needed because of what you hear/read/see in the media? Or do you find them truly beneficial to you? As in, if you eat them or not, do you feel better or worse? The key here would be to start KOE, and after sufficient adaptation time, see how you feel. Better or worse? If you’re feeling great, then the honey, lentils, dates, etc, weren’t needed. If you feel you do need them for some reason, eat a small amount of one of them, wait 2-3 days and see how you feel again? Better? Worse? The same? In that way, you determine what YOU need or can tolerate for your weight, health, activity, hormone levels, etc.

For the 2nd question, I can tell you that, for me, it’s NOT the “relative starvation.” I’ve lost weight eating ~600-800 calories/day and never felt quite so good as I feel with keto. I IF only because I’m not hungry…usually eat one meal/day. Much different than trying to force myself to keep calories low. But it goes hand in hand…I couldn’t IF on a carb-rich diet because of cravings and hunger. I can IF on keto because that’s no longer an issue. So saying “Which is it?” isn’t quite so simple.

(John) #8

I’m here for weight loss and avoidance of type 2 diabetes, which I don’t have, but have a family history of and have some genetic risk markers for.

I try to fit as many healthy carbs in my daily diet as I can and still remain in a primarily lipolytic (fat burning) state. That includes berries and nuts in appropriate quantities, and plenty of leafy greens and above-ground vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, asparagus, squash, zucchini, tomatoes, mushrooms, cucumbers, olives, avocados, etc). I also eat a small amount of 100% dark chocolate a few times a week, and I supplement with vitamin D, B-complex, and magnesium. I limit dairy consumption overall, but I do include modest amounts of full fat yogurt on a regular basis, maybe 1/4 cup every couple of days.

I am eating MORE fresh whole vegetables than I have in years (instead of bread / pasta / rice / sugar) while still reducing overall carb content.

I don’t experience any special extra energy or concentration. I am not sure where you get that idea from. The only benefit I am getting that I can detect is a natural control over my eating and hunger and a lack of cravings, as well as significant weight loss.

Some of that may be psychological as a result of my intentionally working to change bad habits and replace them with good habits, and changing the way I think about food.

Most of the time when I fast it is by accident. For example, I did a 24-hour fast yesterday but was not intending to. I just got busy with other things and didn’t have breakfast or lunch. I did have a full dinner (steak and asparagus with butter) with a dessert of blackberries, walnuts, and whipped cream, couple of squares of 100% chocolate, and some red wine (Christmas Eve after all).

Today I didn’t have anything to eat until lunch-time (late breakfast) which was a 3-egg omelet with sauteed mushrooms, spinach, and shredded parmesan cheese and 3 slices of thick bacon, with black coffee. That was very filling and in all probability I won’t be especially hungry for dinner, though I think we are going to roast a chicken and I have some broccoli and cauliflower I need to cook and plenty of salad greens.

This is a very rich diet and if you properly manage portion sizes and are willing to incorporate a lot of variety in what you eat, there’s really not a big issue with missing some crucial nutrients.

(KM) #9

Dont think so as have been on Keto on probably moderate effort at this stage and cant seem to have consistency. Infact it appears I am no where near fat adapted. Been having alot of meat and maybe not enough fats. For south asian background to go on ketodiet needs major overhaul. Meat and carbs with alot of flavors and spices have been staple for me. But lets see with time. Just one month of experimenting.

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(Carl Keller) #10

In the beginning you should be focusing on a lot on fat. Try to get 75% of your calories from it. Every meal should be seen as an opportunity to teach your body that fat is the focus. Add butter to your protein, add coconut oil to your coffee, cook your vegetables in lard or healthy oil… and maybe that will help.

Do you notice a difference in energy levels, mental clarity, cravings and hunger?

(Omar) #11

Honey and dates publicity comes from Abrahamic relegions. they are totem. Each culture has totem food.

What else are there in the desert?

they are not super food by any means. Eggs are more nutritious than dates and honey.

(Bunny) #12

Micronutrients I incorporate in my regimen (mix them together in equal parts and place them in gel caps or sprinkle on a salad or in ketogenic fat bombs):

  1. Wheat grass powder (grown in Utah on ancient sea beds)

  2. Chia seeds (freshly ground; coffee grinder)

  3. Brewers Yeast (non-fortified)

  4. Nutritional Yeast (non-fortified)

  5. Flax seeds (freshly ground; coffee grinder)

  6. RS2: Resistant Starch (macro-micro)

  7. Bone Broth Fasting (no solid foods for 4 hours before or after, vitally important esp. on keto {to up your glutathione levels and keep them from being depleted} and I also throw in a little organic deep ground soil based sulfur similar to DSMO into the broth around 2 Tbls; it is a white powder that comes in a clear plastic bag, not pills which contain preservatives into my broth when I make big batch of it in a crock pot out in the garage or outside because you don’t want your house smelling like a slaughter house, I don’t notice it but your housemates or wife, husband and siblings might get offended…lol

Note: I dose very sparingly and frugally (not everyday) with all of the above as well as other anti-oxidants, and other micronutrients, I’m not ingesting tons of this stuff!

I do take other anti-oxidants and an enormous variety of other micronutrients which is much too extensive to list here but the ones metioned above are the most vital and important besides vitally essential minerals and trace elements like potassium, sodium and magnesium…

I think it is partially placebo with the HPA-axis (higher adrenaline; carbohydrate restriction; fight-flight responsiveness is heightened i.e. survival mode) powering the body through the semi-pre-adaption phase of fat adaption which takes a good 27 weeks to become maximally effecient in all aspects… And with that said, said placebo affect is tempoarary…

There is a lot of permanent changes that happen in the brain that forever changes the brain for the better (i.e. neurogenesis, neural repair, and neuroplasticity…) with the ketogenic diet even if you switch back to a high carb diet… Dr. J. Fung gets more into the finer points on this; on how high carbs and esp. high sugar diets make us humans ’stupid’ (real stupid!) here!

The ketogenic diet is a fast mimicking diet which can bring you closer to a state of autophagy if your doing the three (3) meals a day thing? (note: “3 Meals a Day” concept was introduced and heavily indoctrinated through the food industry {J. Fung, et al.} world-wide to make you buy more food?)

Intermittent (fasting?) eating is how our body is supposed to function on a natural circadian rhythm (cephalic phase response CRP; metabolism learns and is trained to react on timing impulses; when too eat?); just like drinking water when you are thirsty; only eat when you are hungry? And that does not mean eat highly processed and refined high octane junk foods (what makes you want to eat more food)…

(KM) #13

I think I did notice a difference in that month when my ketones were up and down regarding energy levels. Was more alert after dinner meals otherwise would just crash in bed and get nothing done. Mental clarity not so sure as yet. I really will need to up the fats as you say and get into proper state before seeing if this is for me. I am not into it for weight, diabetes or other common reasons. Mostly to combat excess fatigue and see if it does indeed bring the mental clarity people talk about.

(Carl Keller) #14

I’m a big fan of coconut oil for boosting brain health. There are a lot of stories about people with Alzheimers, Dementia, Parkingson’s and ALS having improved drastically by taking CO regularly. I can’t say for sure if it’s the CO, eating ketogenically or both, but I don’t experience fatigue like I used to and I definitely feel mentally perked after I have my morning coffee with 1-2 teaspoons.

https://drjockers.com/coconut-oil-brain-health/

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #15

It’s probably the medium-chain triglycerides in the coconut oil. The brain seems to run extremely well on mostly, if not completely, β-hydroxybutyrate.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #16

Hmm, that article says:

“The average sized adult should consume 3-4 tablespoons of coconut oil daily. This could be taken orally, added to food, or applied onto skin.”

Would application onto skin be well-absorbed? I have read that there is some doubt whether magnesium applied the same is of any benefit.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

You could rub it on your tongue, perhaps? :grin: