Dear community!! I’m a newby on this platform, however been a keen keto-lover for a few years now. Followed the 2KD since “the beginning” and love them dearly. Why so late to enrol here is really due to time restraints… I am a swedish young mother of two lovely children, medical student, breast cancer survivor (now widely spread to bones) since 2010, involved in media and keen triathlete.
That’s my small introduction to you. I would like to add that I am deeply impressed by this platform Richard and Carl, and am so pleased that you have used your great talent in communication to do this for the needing world. Thank you!
Now to my burning question and if it already has been addressed, kindly guide me to it if you may.
“I have stage 4 cancer and in my fight for more time with my children I have opted for a personalized diet with foods that should keep Insulin as low as possible, thus going extreme keto that’s (almost) dairy free, meat free, caffeine free and so forth… also trying to avoid food that will trigger M-Tor pathway, thus avoiding high protein (egg whites…). This leaves me a very small range of foods, however, it works! Where there is a will, there is a way!
I find however that the information about insulin score index of wholefood items such as greens, different fish selections, different meet groups and so forth, very absent, and am so frustrated that they are so hard to come by.
Of course there is for sure individual differences also to take into account when it comes to insulin responses to foods, but I believe it is a very important topic to discuss. Red meat for example triggers very high insulin and also eggs, but as you all know has no carbs… Ref: https://idmprogram.com/insulin-index/
I have not got diabetes, I am slim and has no health problems other than dying of /living with cancer, so my search for insulin lowering foods is only due to my cancer. Please, anyone!! Is there any platform, group or place on the Internet or lab that have more specific information on insulin score on wholefood categories? And is there anybody here on the forum who is in my place, doing the same and has info to share?”
Many thanks and all good wishes for the new year!!
Insulin index and insulin triggering foods
Just popping in to say welcome and best wishes. I’m sure someone who can answer your questions - or at least point you in some good directions - will be on soon. If you’ve been listening to the podcast from the beginning, you heard the episode with Nasha Winters? I just heard her again on Robb Wolf’s podcast and she seems terrific and knowledgable (and if remember correctly, is also over 25 years out from a stage 4 diagnosis!).
That’s Great!! Thank you ever so much for the reminder!! They have covered so many incredible topics and I have saved so many of them, however, one do forget which podcast chapter covered what at times!! Thank you and the very best wishes to you too!!
I am very sorry to hear of your diagnosis. I think you are very wise to adopt a keto diet. I would suggest that you read about fasting as a dietary approach to fighting cancer as well.
I was also puzzled by your decision to exclude red meat and wonder what that is based on. I did a quick search and could find nothing of good quality to support that idea that red meat is insulinogenic.
Wishing you the best.
Have you tested this for yourself and found it to be true for YOU?
I am not saying it can’t be true for you personally. But it is definitely NOT the case for a LOT of other people. Yes, proteins do give an insulin response, as to non-starchy vegetables. “Very high” is a bit of a stretch unless it’s indeed a trigger for you personally.
As you know fat is pretty neutral. Keto is quit high in fat. Starving your cancer of sugar is an excellent start. You can certainly extend your life. I believe EF is also helpful.
K
Ida, there are several threads on here about keto and cancer. Here’s one of them, and the others are easy to find.
Thank you for your answer clackley!! Yes, sorry I didn’t mention my fasting regim of one day a week and three days a month water fast. Sometimes I can’t do it due to my low blod pressure and even with high salt intake feel to light headed.
Yes, there is evidens to suggest that both fish and meat have as high insulin response as breakfast cereals, I have referred to Dr Jason Fungs nice summary on the matter in my above post for you to look through, but I have read other articles about it too. It is incredibly interesting I think that not all high protein foods have this insulin respons. Thus my question,…
Many thanks!!! and kind regards 
Thank you Bellyman!! Please read my answer to clackley… But yes! Isn’t it interesting that the actual stretch from the sheer amount of food we ingest can realise insulin! The Gut has an incredible network of nerves, the Enteric Nervous System, whose function still so full of many mysteries.
The personal response to food is also something to consider, always. As it is hard to measure Insulin, I have found a “model” to try out insulin response for my self that I try to do anytime I want to introduce a new non-carb-food to my diet. This is by eating a fair amount of this food on an empty stomach. Waiting for about two hours to see if I feel hunger. If I have “more than usual” hunger sensations, then yes, I consider the food to have an insulin release impact. However, as you can se as mention by Dr Jason Fung in his summary article referensed in my question, som non-carb-foods may stimulate to insulin release but not impact blod sugar and also give a sense of satiation. This is where things get complicated ha ha!! but what isn’t when it comes to te intregate functions of the body!
Thank you for your thoughts:-)
Hi Ida, I’ve seen plenty to suggest that elevated insulin as part of metabolic syndrome/insulin resistance is for cancer like pouring gasoline on a fire. That could be sufficient motivation to really minimize insulin though I’m curious to know if you have seen anything that indicates insulin is problematic at normal or lower levels?
Cachexia is a major risk for those with advanced cancer and I wonder if one might go too far lowering insulin, especially with protein restriction, and increase the risk of cachexia? I’m not trying to suggest you aren’t on the best path in your very challenging situation just curious to know your thoughts. And of course wishing you the utmost success.
Thank you for your thoughts brownfat. Yes, the studies I have read point to the importance to keep insulin low. It is a growth hormone. Of course all cancer cells have far more insulin receptors than any healthy cell, however over time using the strict ketogenic diet I am sure the surviving tumor cells would have some form of mutation which anable them to produce their own insulin (just like the Beta cells in the pancreas) as they have all DNA at their disposal, I know for a fact they also have a vast amount of GLUT receptors on their membranes also which makes sense. However, It is absolutely clear to me that it has a great impact keeping insulin low in my situation. Thus my eager search for insulin index in order to better prioritise my food choices.
Regarding Cachexia. Interesting you bring this up. I have read studies pointing to the importance of consuming Omega 3 that is very high in EPA to prevent cachexia in the late stages of cancer. According to the studie that I came across (unfortunately a while back and I never kept it in my record of good references) the EPA can half the cases of cachexia. Thus, the ketogenic diet, based on an 3:1 omega 3 to omega 6 ratio with additional omega 3 supplement that entails hight concentrate of EPA should help.
I guess I sound crazy ha ha!! and I probably am. But I have two small children needing me, a cancer now resistant to all conventional treatments and only myself to keep driving forward for different solutions. I have no room for error. Thank you for your interest in my question!
Yes!!! Isn’t he amazing!!! Unfortunately I don’t live in England where it is easy to come by butchers. Here in Sweden the brain and pancreas do not come to the shelves in the supermarkets. Would love to meet him. Thank you Sleepymotherof3!!
Ida, I think most of the work on the “insulin index” was done at the University of Sydney. The most recent insulin index data that I’m aware of is the PhD thesis by Kirstine Bell, a student of Jennie Brand-Miller who I think did the pioneering work on the insulin index. Kirstine Bell’s thesis has been freely available online but I can’t currently find a valid link. However, I’ve got it in one of my archives and I can retrieve it for you if a working online link is no longer available. Kirstine’s thesis has data on a great many more foods but unfortunately it’s mostly focused on insulinogenic foods. Also, the data represents the average response of multiple test subjects and individual responses varied widely so it would be risky to assume that your own responses would closely or proportionally match their results.
Yes, of course you sound crazy. You like I have a maddeningly challenging health issue to manage. And craziness is a natural human response. Sometimes craziness works when less passionate approaches fail. Stay crazy, keep fighting.
2 books, you may know of them already, but here goes,
“The Metabolic Approach to Cancer” By Nasha Winters and Jess Kelly.
ISBN-10: 1603586865
ISBN-13: 978-1603586863
Nasha Winters was on episode #68.
Keto for Cancer: Ketogenic Metabolic Therapy as a Targeted Nutritional Strategy
ISBN-10: 1603587012
ISBN-13: 978-1603587013
Mirian Kalmanian has some interviews/presentations up on DietDoctor.com. I don’t have a subscription so not sure what all she talks about.
Best of luck, my kids never got to meet one of their grandma’s and almost lost the other one because of that rotten disease.
Some things that might interest you!
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Glycemic index or GI is a number that measures the impact that a food has on blood glucose levels and diabetics should consume low GI foods. The researchers found that adding 15 g of wheatgrass to certain foods significantly lowered the GI of those foods and thus improving blood glucose levels. https://www.livestrong.com/article/367210-the-benefits-of-wheatgrass-for-diabetes/
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Wheatgrass to Strengthen the Immune System. During chemotherapy and radiation, the warrior cells in our bodies, also known as white blood cells, are destroyed. … Do I think adding wheatgrass to an aggressive cancer treatment plan will help? Possibly. https://www.google.com/amp/s/legionathletics.com/wheatgrass-cancer-killing-super-food/amp/
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Wheatgrass juice may be able to ameliorate low levels of white blood cells, helping to reduce myelotoxicity. A 2007 study published in “Nutrition and Cancer” found that patients undergoing chemotherapy for breast http://www.drwheatgrass.com/info/newsletters/aug_08
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The one juice that cancer cells just can’t swallow! https://www.cancerdefeated.com/newsletters/The-one-juice-that-cancer-cells-just-can-not-swallow.html
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According to recent researches, wheatgrass contains more than 90 minerals and 19 kinds of amino acids. https://www.healthfeed.org/28-reasons-why-wheatgrass-is-good-for-you/
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BROCCOLI SPROUTS Sulforafane (a type of Isothiocyanate http://www.quirkyscience.com/sulforaphane/1). Heat to 60 degrees celsius and cool before eating or drinking…Youtube video https://youtu.be/Z7buU-PK7_I Sulforaphane, a Dietary Component of Broccoli/Broccoli Sprouts, Inhibits Breast Cancer Stem Cells https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862133/
Sulforaphane stops cancer and promotes detoxification https://www.naturalhealth365.com/sulforaphane-cancer-2226.html
Invited review
Discovery and development of sulforaphane as a cancer chemopreventive phytochemical https://www.nature.com/articles/aps2007167.pdf?origin=ppub
Anabolic and anti-resorptive modulation of bone homeostasis by the epigenetic modulator sulforaphane, a naturally occurring isothiocyanate http://www.jbc.org/content/early/2016/01/12/jbc.M115.678235.full.pdf The Landmark Johns Hopkins Sulforaphane Cancer Study Your Doctor Isn’t Telling You About https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/johns-hopkins-sulforaphane-cancer-study/
Oh my goodness!! What a lovely answer to my question!! I am so sorry I haven’t had the opportunity to read it until now! This made me so happy!
Thank You!
I would love to have any work you might be able to retrieve from your archives. If it isn’t possible to sent the thesis here you have my e-mail: idabostrom@yahoo.co.uk
I am so grateful… and yes! Crazy, very crazy and eager to make this work. However, according to statistics I am alive against all odds. So hard work and dedication seem in my case a good thing.
I really appreciate your time. Kin regards