Insulin and Glucogon

(carl) #1

Hey all,

As @DaveKeto snd @richard will tell you, sometimes our engineering brains spot inconsistencies that lead us to ask questions.

According to @drjasonfung, as insulin falls, the hormone glucagon goes up. Glucagon is a signal to begin autophagy.

Source: https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-autophagy-fasting-25/

There must be some other signal for glucagon to rise, otherwise, why would we need it? A drop in insulin is a fine signal for autophagy. So, why glucagon?

I’m hoping some of you smart biochem peeps will educate me. :slight_smile:

(Duncan Kerridge) #2

As far as I understand it, glucogon rises in response to low blood sugar - it’s the complementary hormone to insulin and also made by the pancreas. It signals the liver to convert stored glycogen to glucose to release into the blood and in the absence of that to begin gluconeogenesis, which I guess will eventually lead to autophagy.

(Richard Hanson) #3

Hi Carl,

If you want an engineering analogy, just think of a thermostat and homeostasis. When serum glucose is high, pancreatic beta cells are stimulated to release insulin, like turning on the air conditioner to lower the temperature, and glucose levels drop. When serum glucose gets low, pancreatic alpha cells are stimulated to release glucagon, like turning on the heater to increase the temperature, and glucose levels are elevated. Only turning off the a/c is not sufficient to keep your house warm on a cold day, and analogously, only lowering insulin is not sufficient to increase glucose levels, you need to also fire up the furnace.

Keto for Life!

Beset Regards,
Richard

(Karen Fricke) #4

My guess is that glucagon rising when insulin drops is an example of correlation is not causation. When glucose drops, insulin drops, and when glucose is low glucagon is released to raise glucose. Both are triggered by the drop in glucose.

(Ken) #5

Understanding the role of glucagon within the glucagon-insulin relationship is key in understanding the concept of lipolysis. It is the driver for lipolysis, and is far more important than having a fixation on ketosis, as ketosis is only one aspect of lipolysis. Initially, when dietary glucose drops and glucagon secretions begins, it enables the first step towards lipolysis, that of glycogenolysis, which is the burning of stored glycogen. After depletion, lipolysis begins. The primary energy source then becomes fatty acids, which are used by most cells of the body, which can come either from dietary or stored fat. When the fat cells are denatured, besides breaking into fatty acids, they also break into glycerol, which is used as the substrate for two supplemental energy processes. One is gluconeogenesis, or limited glucose production, and the other one is ketosis.

So, to be lipolytic you have to secrete primarily glucagon. You also have to be glycogen depleted.

This is the first thing I explain to people who want to lose fat. It seems that everyone is familiar with insulin, but most are unaware of glucagon and it’s role in fat burning. I also then explain leptin, and how it suppresses appetite and how it assists weight loss.

(Bunny) #6

AUTOPHAGY\ALZHEIMER’S\GLUCAGON\CANCER:

Love this part of the article:

“…The consequences of accumulating old junky proteins all over the place can be seen in two main conditions – Alzheimer’s Disease (AD) and cancer. Alzheimer’s Disease involves the accumulation of abnormal protein – either amyloid beta or Tau protein which gums up the brain system. It would make sense that a process like autophagy that has the ability to clear out old protein could prevent the development of AD.” …” https://idmprogram.com/fasting-and-autophagy-fasting-25/

My thoughts on this:

The only part of the body that CANNOT go through the autophagy process; is brain matter or tissue itself which is a little confusing? However, that tells us where the problems are; not just Alzheimer’s* disease (e.g. cancer); it comes from EATING TOO MUCH SUGAR & CARBOHYDRATES (gluconeogenesis/highly processed & refined)* in a life-time and not giving the body a break from the continuous and never ending running median of (insulin spiking) high glucose* in the blood stream for extensive periods of time…

Reminds of the Biblical acount of Moses where it states; upon his death: “…HIS NATURAL VIGOR (vitality) NEVER EBATED HIM*…”

Most likely from a very very low dietary intake of sugar and/or carbs*…

*THE RESEARCH:

  1. Amyloid-β and glucose metabolism in Alzheimer’s disease.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21971455/

  2. Glucose directs amyloid-beta into membrane-active oligomers. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28671211/

  3. Amyloid beta-peptide inhibits neuronal glucose uptake by preventing exocytosis.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11476592

  4. Scientists find new link between diabetes and Alzheimer’s By Michael C. Purdy May 4, 2015 https://source.wustl.edu/2015/05/scientists-find-new-link-between-diabetes-and-alzheimers/

  5. Debating Insulin’s Role in Alzheimer’s by Carl Sherman June 13, 2013 http://dana.org/News/Details.aspx?id=43285

  6. High blood sugar makes Alzheimer’s plaque more toxic to the brain Date: October 29, 2013 https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131029090345.htm

Bio-decryption Challenge
(Richard Morris) #7

Sometimes the body needs to raise insulin without lowering glucose - such as when you eat protein, so you secrete both insulin AND glucagon.

(Erin Macfarland ) #8

So, why don’t we have a means of injecting glucogon to promote autophagy in order to increase the beneficial effects on our cells?

(Ken) #9

The degree of insulin release is determined by macro nutrient ingested. Clearly, the highest release occurs when consuming carbs, especially simple ones high on the glycemic scale. Protein intake causes a much lower response, with many noting that it’s not really enough to significantly raise blood sugar. One exception seems to be concentrated protein such as found in powdered supplements causing an noticeable spike similar to a post parandial “Carb Coma”. That’s one of the main reasons I gave up on protein powders and went to meat for my post training meal. The more denatured the powder, the higher the effect. Simple powder was the lowest reaction, Isolate powder increased the response, and Hydrolysate powder was the most intense.

Protein intake within a lipolytic nutritional pattern does cause a relatively small insulin secretion and a brief halt to glucagon production, but after the release (often refered to as “spike” lasting a couple of hours) the body goes back to secreting glucagon.

At least this is my understanding, as I’m not aware insulin and glucagon can be released simultaneously. If you have a reference showing they can, I’d be interested in reading it.

(Ken) #10

It’s been tried. It doesn’t work. Same thing with leptin supplementation.

I’m wracking my memory now, as it’s been over a decade since I researched it. It seems that glucagon secretion during a lipogenic secretion pattern is ineffective because the body preferentially secretes insulin, negating it’s effects. There is also the issue at the cellular level of receptor resistance, which makes sense. Which is why a leptin response is restored when switching to fat rather than carbs as the primary energy source. It’s kind’a like why ingesting supplemental ketones while being lipogenic isn’t effective. Lipolysis drives ketosis, ketosis doesn’t drive lipolysis.

(carl) #11

That’s what I was looking for. Thank you