Inflammation in heart disease and other maladies (PANS for children/teens)

(Bob M) #1

I thought this was interesting. It’s mainly about an anti-inflammatory drug…that reduces heart disease…without changing lipids:

Yes, it’s relative risk, and not super high values, but causes a relatively - see what I did there? :face_with_raised_eyebrow: – consistent effect. If I had to bet my house on inflammation or LDL being causal in heart disease, I’d bet it all on inflammation. (Though I think it’s way more complex than just inflammation.)

Another point about inflammation. My youngest daughter has been diagnosed with ADHD and autism. But we thought it might be something else. Mainly because everything came on very quickly, and she had things (like a ton of OCD and tics) that came on, then went away. Additionally, people with autism normally do things like simple drawings; her drawings are on a completely different plane. She studied for and took a test to enter algebra in 7th grade instead of 8th grade, and studied herself. (Other kids had tutors for the test. She did it herself.) You can be what’s called “twice gifted”, meaning you’re very intelligent AND autistic. But there was something “off” about everything.

So, we took her to see a specialist. In doing our research, we thought she might have something called “pediatric acute-onset neuropsychiatric syndrome (PANS)”. PANS is generally caused (they think) by some type of infection, such as a viral infection or lyme disease. It’s an autoimmune syndrome, which can lead to inflammation. But it manifests itself as all types of other things, including ADHD, self harm, autism, …

This is an overview, but my daughter suddenly had OCD and tics when she didn’t have them before. Those have mainly gone away, but she still has ADHD and autism (and depression, and…). Here’s the overview:

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/cap.2014.0084

The specialist had us take her for blood tests, and many of the tests were for inflammation. Such as HS-CRP, and a bunch of IL…, all for inflammation. He did other tests too: iron including ferritin (something I’m low in); lyme disease; a bunch more. But there were a ton of tests for inflammation.

And what did he prescribe for her? Two weeks of … an anti-inflammatory. We’re to meet after two weeks to see what has happened in that time. He thinks she’ll get at least a 50% reduction in symptoms. We’ll see.

Anyway, there’s something to “inflammation” and heart disease and many other maladies.

PS – Both my wife and I know that keto/carnivore/even “clean” paleo can be anti-inflammatory. But trying to get teens to eat that way is tough, especially considering the entire school system is rigged against that.

(Geoffrey) #2

Orrrr…. just eliminate all of the foods that cause inflammation in the first place.
Once again medicine wanting to treat the symptoms rather than the disease.

My cardiologist said “You’ve done more to heal yourself than anything I can do for you” as he took me off of my last heart medication. He praises how my WOE has eliminated the inflammation around my heart.
If given an opportunity to take a pill to relieve the symptoms but still be able to eat the poisons that caused them or just eat a nutrient dense diet and completely eliminate those symptoms and what caused them I’ll stick with the diet.

(Bob M) #3

It’s a good plan, just very hard to do. The schools in the US have to meet US guidelines, which means low fat, no full fat milk, garbage really. There’s also a lot of snacking…all the time. Kids eat all the time.

Let’s say you want to give your kid a snack so they can eat with all the other kids. What do you give them? Not many keto snacks that I can think of.

And any event say, for veterans or for artwork or honor societies or plays or end of school parties or any party…, they all are carb-centric. And there’s candy in teacher’s rooms. And candy is given as a reward. And they’ll say for testing days to pack…snacks.

Even packing lunches is tough. If you have a 17 year old, they need a lot of food. But what do you pack them? No sandwiches (no bread containing gluten), so you need something to put into a container. I eat cold beef, but my kids would never eat that.

So, it’s an issue because if they eat at the cafeteria, they can get fat-free sweetened chocolate milk and low fat pizza, but nothing that’s real meat. The closest would be a burger, but that would come with a bun and fries. You could just eat the burger, but then you’re at 4-6 ounces of meat and that’s it.

(KM) #4

I’d guess the biggest issue beyond the lack of available appropriate human food is the kids themselves. Who wants to eat Dad’s boring embarrassing food when you can have pizza and cookies - and be like everyone else. Who wants to bring a can opener and two cans of sardines to school. Who wants to ask the lunch lady to heat up some dubious Mom Casserole in a tupperware. If school now is anything like school when I was growing up, anything that wasn’t the same as everyone else’s was suspect and required explanation and defense.

[Snacks - nuts and beef jerky are two that I resort to when traveling, which is sort of the same as being in school all day. They come prepackaged and are at least marginally “cool” and if not precisely superfoods, at least not centered on sugar and wheat flour.]

(Doug) #5

:wink::smile: To say the least… :smirk:

#6

. A link between inflammation and heart disease has been acknowledged for decades; no anti-inflammatory medicine has ever been approved by the FDA for the treatment of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease until this one, colchicine (low dose). 31% reduction in the risk of MACE relative to the placebo The absolute reduction was 1.1 events per 100. It’s important to know that the participants were also taking CV-prevention medication in addition to their assigned pills in the study. There was some bias in the study, as they excluded those who had preceived side effects and had failed to adhere to the treatment. In general, compliance is likely to be lower in the randomized cohort, and I think the true reduction in risk on a population level is most certainly less than the 31% reported by the investigators. Still a net benefit. It may serve as an additional tool to further reduce the risk of CV events.

(Geoffrey) #7

Yes sir, I’m aware of that but I was speaking of not so much on a personal level but more on a national level.
I just find it absurd that the doctors, the government and the general public will rise up in arms over smoking because it’s so dangerous to the heart but won’t say or do anything about the foods that are just as dangerous.
I know an addictive society isn’t going to change. After all, you can’t escape a prison if you don’t even know you’re in one.

#8

Sounds like you have a proactive doctor. I have a good friend who is on the autistism spectrum. He revceived his Phd in physics from Caltech. Brilliant mind. He once showed up at my place for a party wearing his pyjama bottoms. Thankfully, as time has past, he has built the needed scaffolding around him so he remembers to do things, like brush his teeth or to eat on a regular basis.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

Really? The U.S. is one of the biggest producers of soybeans, maize (corn), and wheat, all produced by large agricultural corporations. Is it really so surprising that’s what they want us to eat?

(Geoffrey) #10

Oh I get what you’re saying and you are correct but I still find it absurd or maybe a better term would be criminal.

(Alec) #11

I was under the impression that statins are an anti-inflammatory and that the (incredibly small) CVD benefits that are seen in statin trials run by the drug companies are driven by the inflammation benefits (rather than the LDL reduction). But I am not sure of my ground here…

(Bob M) #12

Well, we went to a follow-up meeting and what the doctor was expecting was a ton of inflammation as shown by blood tests. Unfortunately, there was none. For instance, her HS-CRP was “<0.2”, which is very low.

He was also looking for markers of various bacterial or viral infections, or lyme (which she got last year), and all of those except mono were negative. There was one marker (Igg I think) that was positive too.

While she could have PANS/PANDAS, the blood work isn’t supporting this.

Edit: Also, my daughter did not experience any benefit from taking the anti-inflammatory. The Dr. thought certain symptoms would be reduced by quite a bit, but it didn’t happen.

Edit2: But to show how “polluted” the whole world is for eating, he has a bowl of fancy chocolates in his waiting room. So, what did my daughter eat and take additional ones of? Yep, chocolate. Pretty much exactly what she should not be eating.

Edit3: My daughter went to her normally-scheduled psychologist…who also had chocolate to take at her office. Which of course our daughter took. Does no one know that sugar exacerbates or potentially causes mental illnesses? Seriously, what the heck?