Increasingly Difficult to Enter Ketosis

keto
fasting
(Roger) #1

I’ve been doing keto for several years now – to keep weight and bodyfat under control. I would usually stay in ketosis for a period of 5-10 days at a time – using both ketostix strips and a blood monitor to monitor status.

For a long time, all I needed to do to get into ketosis would be to keep carb count under 30-40g for 2-3 days. Then I eventually needed to keep carbs at 20g or less for 2-3 days.

But it’s getting tougher. I’m finding it harder and harder to enter ketosis. Now, 20g or less doesn’t seem to cut it. I have to go on a full-on fast for 2-3 days before I enter ketosis.

Does this sound right? Anybody else having this experience? Should I be concerned? Is my body adapting somehow – making it harder?

(Joey) #2

If you’re truly eating 20’ish grams of carbs daily, you are truly in ketosis. Full stop.

At the risk of being blunt, if you weren’t in ketosis, you’d be dead by now. :roll_eyes:

I know it’s tough but you must ignore what those sticks and blood tests are showing. They become less and less relevant the longer you are restricting carbs.

Here’s why: There is no reason for your body to produce any larger quantity of ketones than what your tissues actually need. And once you become “fat-adapted” they need less and less because it is not being wasted.

This is especially relevant with urine pee sticks … which measure the amount of ketones you are wasting through urination. After you adapt, the less you waste, the better :wink: )

There are plenty of other folks (all of us?) who have experienced the exact same thing you are describing. In other words, everything sounds normal.

Question: How are you feeling? Is your energy level sufficient? Are you keeping the weight off you sought to lose? After several years of carb-restriction, you should be seeing meaningful benefits. But having high serum (or urinary) ketone levels - to be wasted - is NOT one of them. :vulcan_salute:

(Roger) #3

Hey, thanks a lot for the thoughful response and good info. Actually, I’ve been “feeling” pretty good. Good energy level to support my workouts.

But, as far my weight goes, That’s been a different story – definitely hit a plateau. I feel like I’m on a yo-yo sometimes, struggling with the same stubborn 10 pounds or so. You see, when in a fasting-induced (0 carb) ketosis, I seem to get down to my target weight and a visceral fat percentage of 8%. But then, after breaking my fast and switching over to low-carb ketosis (20g or less), I gain the weight (~10 lb) right back. And my visceral fat increases to 10. Rinse and repeat. Kinda frustrating.

(KM) #4

Have you considered going carnivore? Plenty of energy, no carbs! :cow:

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #5

Yeah, those keto tests seem useless. Somebody here told me the breath ones are better but I wouldn’t bother.
If you feel good that’s the main thing and probably well into ketosis.
And re the stuborn few lbs and weight loss stall, I’m not even sure that’s an issue. Same thing has been annoying me too. The fat melts away initially then the last bit wants the hang around. I’m actually wondering if my system want’s to intentionally keep it! heaven know why :man_shrugging:

(Joey) #6

Our bodies are designed to store fat as an evolutionary feature - not a bug. Your individual “set point” may be intruding upon your best laid plans. :wink:

(Joey) #7

Not quite following the math …

If 10lbs reflects a 2 percentage point change (8% visceral fat to 10%), doesn’t this imply your total weight of 500lbs (10lbs divided by 0.02)? Certainly possible, but I’m wondering if this is actually your situation?

In any event, I wouldn’t be surprised if your body wants those very same 10lbs that seem to be bothering you. Sure, you can starve them off through fasting - but in doing so your body is getting a signal that it better store some fat again for the future because it keeps experiencing these periods of starvation.

Put differently: Your idea of a “target” weight might differ from your body’s own natural target.

On a personal note: I currently weigh about 140-145lbs. After flying on a plane, I typically drop 4-5 lbs down to 140. But within a week, I’m back to 145’ish. This is not likely a change in fat nor muscle - but water weight (airplanes are dehydration tubes :wink: )

So then again, some of your 10lbs may be water weight. Does your waist size change much when you gain/lose these 10 lbs? If not, it’s not likely too much fat that’s coming and going.

(Pete A) #8

I dont ever know if I’m “in ketosis”. But I’ve been low carb (under 20 net) for 7 years.

Works for me!

(Robin) #9

I’ve never measured either. I believe if you are already doing everything you can, there’s no reason. I also weigh only rarely.
Perhaps that 10 lb heavier weight is a comfy zone for your body. That may eventually change. Maybe not.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.
Sounds to me like you are a-ok.
You got this!

(Roger) #10

Hey, sorry about the math issue. Totally my bad. I made the assumption that the number displayed for visceral fat (per my bodyweigh/composition scale) is a percentage when in fact it might be “just a number” that expresses some other unit. I’ve had it so long, I need to go back to the manual to confirm just what this number means exactly. However the point is the same (a fat measure that increases and decreases).

(Roger) #11

I hear ya. Thanks for sharing.:ok_hand:

(Roger) #12

Thanks a lot. Yeah, this may be part of the body’s natural self-preservation mechanism at work.

(Joey) #13

What device is providing this info? If it’s a consumer app (unlike something akin to a DEXA scan), chances are its figures are based on all kinds of assumptions that might have nothing to do with your actual situation. Just a thought.

(Roger) #14

True. Most of the readings should prob be taken with a grain of salt.

By the way, it’s an OMRON body comp monitor and scale: OMRON scale

(B Creighton) #15

As others have said, you are in ketosis. As you lose fat, your liver optimizes its ketone production so as not to waste its energy supplies of fat. In other words it lowers ketone production to optimize your “survival” chances. Isn’t the body a wonderful thing? If it didn’t do that lots of extra ketones would get “wasted” by getting peed and breathed out. The keto strips will be practically useless at this point, but a good blood ketone meter should detect some minor ketones your liver will maintain. So, yes your liver is adapting. It’s not “making it harder”… it’s maximizing your survival chances. :slight_smile:

(Joey) #16

Aha. Sorry to be crass, but… other than measuring my body weight (i.e., how hard gravity is tugging on me), I wouldn’t rely on any other metric spewed from this device.

[Although if I needed a random number generator I would consider this scale as an option.] :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

(Bonnie Bruno) #17

Hlo @RogerCBC …I am nooooo expect and returning to keto myself recently.

I don’t fully follow your post.

Does this mean that over the years you’ve played with a carb range and we’re not “strictly” keto…usually 20/25 grams of carbs a day.
Have you been purposely cycling in/out of keto?

If so, I’m wondering if you have been that perhpas your body doesn’t have that metabolic flexibility anymore?

(Ethan) #18

Yes, the body does seem to adapt and requires less calories to maintain weight. It’s probably a good thing because it means eating less calories and living longer. Here’s a hint on how to break through that if you want to. I never read it anywhere but I do it from time to time and it works for me.

Add a scoop or 1/2 scoop of protein powder with your meals from time to time. I get unflavored and add vanilla extract + stevia for taste.

That seems to reset the metabolism and that next 5+ pounds comes off pretty fast.

(Roger) #19

Yes, it wasn’t strict, long-term keto – but rather the cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). However, before discovering CKD, I was doing the strict version.

(Roger) #20

Hey, thanks for the tip. I hadn’t heard that one before. I will certainly look into that.