Increasing carbs once fat adapted


(Diana) #21

I have long wondered the question you are asking. My goal is similar, I don’t want to increase carbs for bad foods, but purely to be able to enjoy some small amount of fruit and veggie without having to worry about weight gain. I so desire to have a bowl of fresh picked strawberries…unfortunately for me, I’m not one of the lucky ones but you may be. My husband can easily intake ~70g and still register blood ketones. From my perspective I wanted to ensure he was still using fat for energy due to the amount of fat he was eating in the day (wanted to ensure it was being burned up).

From what I’m gathering from your question, you want to know that borderline level so that you can eat more carbs but still be considered as in ketosis so that you are in fact burning fat for fuel and that you don’t get any of the nasty side effects like keto flu. I would think then the only way to find out is testing your ketone levels. Increase carbs by 5G each day until you find out that threshold bc that will be very individual.


#22

Agree, Dr A said it all way way way back then LOL


#23

this was me. it is a very very hard fact to accept about what it takes for each of us…I SO tried to climb the carb ladder but every time I went over around 10-12 total g on carbs I failed. I wanted more and more. It is me and I finally learned…with alot of anger believe me LOL that I wasn’t one and of course I said the ‘life is unfair’, this is BS to the max and more HA but in the end, I did for me and what I could do at all times cause my body showed me reality, I had to just accept and move forward if I wanted changes that was all about me ya know…yea it is hard on some of us for sure!


(Jack Bennett) #24

One of the books that goes into this is Perfect Health Diet by Paul and Shou-Ching Jaminet. They present therapeutic ketogenic options but their main diet is a “lower carb” approach with most grains and legumes removed. Carbs are present in the diet mainly in the form of fruit and starchy vegetables - i.e. whole and minimally processed foods. If you were going to add back some higher-carb foods their approach seems like a sensible one.


(Ian) #25

I sounds like a lottery and your mileage may vary depending on a whole host of different factors, such as genetics, insulin resistance, exercise, nature and degree of processing of the carbs etc. The only way to be sure to to test test test. A CGM helps.

From personal experience, I achieve and maintained ketosis very easily at sub 30 g total carbs. Purely out of interest I experimented with carbs to figure out my personal tolerance. It appears that I can eat up to 70-80 g carbs, including some crappy carbs (such as the Tim Horton’s wraps) and still stay in ketosis, assuming I’m starting from my typical baseline line of 1-2.0 m/moles ketone. But I cant eat at that level and stay in ketosis permanently for more than 2 days straight. To remain in ketosis at a lower level I need be less than 50-60 g and that can be any carbs, include bread, wheat etc. If the carbs are nuts, berries, calciferous veggies etc than it can be more.

Good luck with the addictive world of self experimentation!


(Sam) #26

but the problem here is once you are fat adapted… how are you really telling if you are in ketosis or not. Relying on a blood meter won’t really give you the full picture once you are completely fat adapted. I have gone a week doing OMAD, staying under 15 carbs a day, and still read 0.4 on a blood ketone meter. I can go the next week having 40-50 carbs a day and read 0.8 on the ketone meter (blood glucose is relatively the same). So once you are fat adapted … how are you really checking this information? Chasing ketones for ketones sake is obviously not the point… but… how are you measuring if you are still ‘in ketosis?’


#27

Those are 2 things that aren’t interconnected.

Constantly checking ketones to see if you’re in ketosis or not is very much chasing ketones. Who cares? If your carbs are low enough let it go. The number on the meter doesn’t correlate to fat loss speed. If you check your numbers 10x a day you’ll get 10 different readings.

If you’re showing 0.8 after 50g of carbs you’re doing pretty good metabolically. Be happy with that!


#28

I never even measured anything and I don’t belong to the ones who feel if they are in ketosis. I may get some hints under certain circumstances, though… But they aren’t very reliable.

I personally just suspect I am ketosis if I eat very low-carb but I don’t even care. I want to feel right, not “being in ketosis”. But if I am not there on carnivore or close to it (where I feel very good positive changes unlike just in ketosis but more carbs), I really couldn’t care less :smiley:

I would be a bit more lost at 40-50g, I was in ketosis and got fat adapted at 40g net so I suspect it’s ketosis for me… But if I did that below 20g and I felt the same there and at 40 and at 60, well, I wouldn’t know that… I just would do whatever feels best. But it’s my attitude… If someone totally wants ketosis but can’t figure it out, eat very low-carb, maybe?


(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #29

If you are not eating carbohydrate and are still breathing in and out, you are in ketosis, regardless of what the meter says.


(Butter Withaspoon) #30

I find my carb tolerance by trying individual foods. If I can’t feel any difference, then that food item is probably ok occasionally.
Sometimes I wake up in the morning with a very slight feeling, like having 5% of a hangover, and remember that I had dinner at someone else’s house and it was a bit carbier, a bit more processed food. My response is to have a super healthy low carb day and that resets me.

What I avoid like the plague is treat food and sweet food. Those keto treats that look like snack food are not gonna be good for me. One piece of sweet junk food and I’ll be having the occasional treat for days after (because I REALLY felt like it!!). Starchy vegetables and fruit I seem to have a great tolerance for :woman_shrugging: I think I have a pretty high level of metabolic flexibility and can switch between fuel sources pretty well.

20g of carbs is such an excellent safe upper level for a society of metabolically unhealthy people, but it’s worth remembering that one person’s 20g limit may be the same as another persons 80g limit in the glucose challenge to the system. It would be like telling me I would be fine to drive after 1 glass of wine (because most people would be) - I would absolutely NOT be fine!


(Sam) #31

Yeah. I have had almost an opposite experience. When i used my cgm, i had fairly negative responses (higher blood sugar responses)to berries and certain vegetables (like garlic). But if i have some enlightened ice cream or quest pb cups… Almost no response and feel great. I get that bio individuality plays a role here.