I'm panicking, probably for nothing

(Sid) #21

Hey collaroygal!

Thanks for your thoughts, appreciated!

My main enemy here is being uninformed and expecting too much initially.

I’ll take your advice and just chill out!



Well it’s exactly what waste does :slight_smile: But if things aren’t too unhealthy, it’s not a huge amount. Maybe in the eyes of someone weighing themselves and focusing on it so much that every 0.1 lbs matters - but simple water retention is still there, no need to worry about even 1-2 kgs…

And it’s normal to be a beginner at this thing. It’s different for us who know about bodyweight fluctuations since ages… :wink: it’s the same with the diet related things too, first one can be very lost with little knowledge but main thing we try new things hoping for the better and educate ourselves (many on this forum do it to a high extent, I am more into what my individual body wants, I more like experiment and see what happens but I do like to know things, I just don’t do much research. I do some. and read what others write, I like concise, not too chemistry heavy comments).

Good luck! Don’t worry much in the beginning where nothing seems to be wrong (yet?) :wink: You may be one of the lucky ones who just do it and everything falls into place.

(holistciRN) #23

If you haven’t had a bowel movement in 2-3 days (!) there’s your 1.2 pounds. No need to worry or panic. Keto is not a straight downward slide, you will go up and now, but as long as the general trend is down, over time it works. Keep calm and keto on.

(Sid) #24

Hey RN!

Thanks for the input and I’m starting to understand more and more about it all now!

By the way that picture is both accurate and hilarious! :laughing:


(Mark Rhodes) #25

It is the engineer in me. As to our first spat, ahhh love. Anyhoo… It also allowed me to no longer be governed by the weight at all. Except when I am getting close to a DXA which is today. I somehow always seem to drop too much weight close to DXA time, then rush to keep it on. It’s all water at this point. But this is what using the scale every day looks like for me:

I should be 227 for my weigh in but instead will be 2 pounds shy, making my BF% go up

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #26

So, water you want to do about it?

(Mark Rhodes) #28

Booo, yo’re better than that


It sounds like your expectations are not being met?
I, too, am a numbers person. I did a DEXA scan before I started and another 3 months later. I also did blood work before starting and again after three months. I continue to do a DEXA scan every year and blood work twice per year.
I decided feedback was better than no feedback. (IMO) I weigh myself almost every day and have done so for almost 30 years. I have lots of data points that, over time, give me positive and negative feedback so that I can make course corrections if needed. After almost 15 years on some form of keto and lower carbs, my main concern now is my hunger hormone ghrelin. Rarely am I hungry.

Fats do have an effect on satiety. Try to eat the same amount of food (calories) as before. Some people lose weight on keto or carivore diets because they create a caloric deficit. Long-term, I believe this downregulates your metabolism.
Keep in mind that I am not a carnivore.

(Judy Thompson) #30

Sid - if it’s not obvious by now I’ll clear this up for you - there is no better place in the universe to find intelligent knowledgeable carnivores and ketovores than right here in the Ketogenic Forums! I started carnivore in January 2022 and came back to KF, having found and joined the forum back in Jan 2019 when starting OMAD for the first time.

I love the responses you’ve gotten here and in time, these people will become your second family as they have mine.

Welcome Sid! You’ve stumbled on the best woe and the best group of advisors you could ever have found.

(Robin) #31

I’d like to order that on a tee shirt, Judy!

(Alec) #32

How do you know you are in a “calorie deficit”? You might add up all the estimated “calories” that you ingest, and have an approximate number, but you have absolutely no idea how much energy your body is using. Nobody does without some expensive lab equipment. What tends to happen is if you restrict food intake your body will reduce energy expenditure, potentially by a lot.

The trick here is to make your body understand that there is plenty of energy coming in, and it can afford to be profligate with body energy… that’s what you want it to experience. You don’t do that by counting calories, you do that by eating and eating and eating until you are comfortably stuffed, and making sure that if you feel hungry, you eat (not carbs, obviously!).

By the way, a “calorie” is a unit of heat energy that is released in a BOM calorimeter when the food is physically burnt. Frankly that has very little to do with what energy we derive from the food when we process it chemically. The whole calorie thing is a total red herring: it is a very convenient paradigm for the food industry so they can claim that 100 calories of sugar equals 100 calories of meat, which is clearly nonsense.


Yeah, that’s how some of us overeat and ensure that no fat-loss and potentially worse things could happen… Even without stuffing… Oh my, I MAY be able to do that on OMAD without overeating! Otherwise, unlikely but depends on the food.

To me, it’s pretty much obvious when I eat at a calorie deficit on average. I lose fat and weight :smiley: That’s how things work… If one knows how much food did work for them lately and they are the type where this don’t change too drastically, that is helpful. Calorie counting isn’t necessary for it though… Some people are able to eat about the same all the time, I did that when I lost fat after going low-carb (as that amount was natural for me at that time), my SO does it all the time and he can simply keep a decent calorie deficit, he just skips a meal, don’t stop being active and it happens. Tracking have various pros and cons.
You are right, our energy expenditure is a bit of a mystery (sometimes a big one. when I was hiking in the frost for 9 hours, I had NO IDEA about it. but who cares? I highly probably lost fat due to the mysterious but probably decent calorie deficit, even with the big meal afterwards :wink: ). We usually need some experiments to have some idea about our CO even if it doesn’t change much later (but it may. day to day fluctuations aren’t a problem though. only if a simple CICOer forces things…). I can’t even track my energy intake even remotely accurately and that is the less mysterious one but that still can be helpful. I personally don’t eat according to some numbers. They may guide me a bit but I don’t force either eating or staying hungry/unsatisfied. It’s quite interesting to me that some people can control their macros to a high level. I never even would want to do that… I never know where my macros will fall the next day, even if I really try to keep them somewhere. BUT I know how I should eat now (I learned things from tracking too) and I try to do that.
But each to their own. One thing is certain, no method or diet works for everyone.


The current dogma says it does not matter what you eat; it only matters how many calories that food contains. If you eat more calories than you expend, you gain weight. The last part is true, but the first part is not. Newer information says it DOES matter what you eat, and for reason far beyond the stored heat energy in food.
The energy density (calories) of food does matter, for sure, but what matters much more is what that food does to our bodies. Will the calories we consume create an environment in our bodies where we want to consume more energy than we expend? Will the calories we consume create an environment in which our bodies prefer to store excess nutrients as fat rather than mobilize fat? All calories are not created equally. The energy content of food (calories) matters, but it is less important than the metabolic effect of food on our body.
Obesity is a growth disorder, just like any other growth disorder. Specifically, obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation. Fat accumulation is determined by the effect of specific nutrients on the hormonal regulation of fat metabolism. Obesity is a condition where the body prioritizes the storage of fat rather than the utilization of fat.

(Sid) #36

Hey Alec!

I realize that I don’t have enough knowledge to claim that I do have a calorie defficiency, my apologies.

They way I thought about it was part that “I’m eating almost a 5’th of the calories I used to eat so for me that is a defficiency”, but as per your post that is obviously wrong thinking.

Another part is that I normally eat under 1k calories per day, last week my average was ~700 per day which also led me to believe it’s a defficiency. Also wrong since as you say, I don’t know at all how much energy my body expends.

I’ll try to research the topic more, thanks for pointing it out!

However, that was not the whole point and I’m still losing weight in a good pace, so at the moment I’m happy with what I’m doing and feeling good :slight_smile:


(Mark Rhodes) #37

Even if Kcals is a decent measure and its not, 700 a day will hurt you. Jump it up to 1700 at least. Things will change for the better. I wrote this in 2021 and some of the links are out of date but it is a good place to start: https://ketopd.com/2021/07/07/chasing-calories-neither-creates-significant-weight-loss-or-health/

Jason Fung does a good job here of explaining detriments of calorie deficiets https://blog.thefastingmethod.com/the-biggest-loser-diet-fasting22/

(Mark Rhodes) #38

and another great blog post by Fung on Calories https://blog.thefastingmethod.com/biggest-loser-diet-explained/

(Sid) #39

Hey Mark!

I know I know, people have been telling me this and I’m trying to change up the meal I eat so that I get more fat and bigger meals but it’s hard for me.

Will definitely read up on the links!


(Robin) #40

Eat up, man! Do not worry about calories. Just carbs… which might mean you will need to eat much much more.

It’s common for our mental appetite to drop off, because it’s carbs that create cravings. Then we interpret carb cravings as being hungry.

Big difference. Without all those carbs, you’ll be eating for fuel, not to satisfy a craving.

I eat twice what I did before. Now food is not on my mind until I actually feel EMPTY and physically in need of food.

(Mark Rhodes) #41

Normally I say don’t drink your calories but in your case our friends over at Keto Chow might have a tasty alternative to help you get more calories in. https://get.aspr.app/SHDoW

Please don’t think I am ripping on you. Just want to see you in the best health possible

(Sid) #42

This is my problem, I can go for a loooong time without getting hungry now, even though I’m fasting 23:1.

I also feel full very fast when I do eat and it just makes it taste bad so I’m currently trying out different things to find my meal-mojo! :slight_smile:

Keeping carbs at more or less 0 is not an issue for me so I really do have some space to up the intake.