Ideal ketone levels

(Karim Wassef) #13

collect more data
ketone readings are not linear or simple to understand. They’re a dynamic response of the body using historical activities to prepare for your future metabolic needs.
don’t think about it for a few days until you start to see your own pattern emerge.

(Keto butts drive me nuts) #14

I don’t worry to much about tracking ketone levels. I cook all the food that I eat. I’m in ketosis

(Ellen ) #15

Okay, thanks Karim

(Ellen ) #16

Thanks Eric

(Tony Campbell) #17

So, my meter arrived. New toy to play with :slight_smile:
Morning (12 hrs since last food)
Ket…0.9mmol/L
Gluc…6.2mmol/L

So…comments anyone? By the way, my urine sticks say that I’m somewhere in the 1.5-2 range, so a huge variance compared to the blood meter!

(Karim Wassef) #18

looks like a good start :smiley:

here’s a peak at some of my data and how it tracks with my experimentation

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #19

Yeah, you can’t directly compare the pee sticks to the blood meter to the breath meter (Ketonix). Tracking with the blood meter can be handy, especially to see how different foods affect you. Even though they are much cheaper, I wouldn’t rely on the pee sticks.

(Tony Campbell) #20

Thanks karim, I’ll have a look at your data later. I’ve got a gym class in a short while, and I like to do some free weights work before it starts. What is the connection between ketones and blood glucose? What should I be looking for? I hadn’t mentioned in this post, but this is the end of my third week since going keto. I’m staying below 20 net carbs without any issues, so I’m happy with that. I mention it, only in case it has a bearing on the readings I gave you. Thanks again.

(Tony Campbell) #21

Yeah, I’m starting to see that. The pee sticks were a handy indicator in the first week or so, but prefer the blood approach. Learning loads from you guys though. Really interesting reading everyone’s experiences.

(Tony Campbell) #22

Personally, I work out 5 days a week in the gym with a mix of free weights, machines and some bike spin classes which are great for cardio work! (55 year old, 62bpm resting heart rate) I just love the atmosphere at my local gym. So, not sure how all this works with my ketone levels? I have to say, I feel great with my mix of exercise and method of eating.

(Bob M) #23

It’s unclear. I’ve had ketones go up, down, stay the same.

(Karim Wassef) #24

Think of glucose and ketone readings as gas tank and battery gauge on a hybrid car that can run on both types of fuel.

The liver is the computer that decides how to fill the two energy storage “tanks”. This is overly simplified because the body actually has many more sources of energy including fatty acids directly, glycogen in muscles, lactate that is recycled, and creatine for fast burst intensity.

The liver senses all the inputs and outputs and decides which tank to fill and how much. It’s not just looking at what you’ve eaten or what you’ve done. It’s got a massive database of what you usually do at that time of day, that day of the week and even weeks of the month. It has massive memory and its function is to make sure you don’t die by processing all this in addition to what you’re eating and how much energy you’re using to fill the tanks appropriately.

It doesn’t do this alone but it’s the master controller. It’s the brain of metabolism. Oh- and it does a lot more than this to keep you alive.

So… what do ketone and glucose readings mean? It’s complicated and constantly changing as your biological intelligence (BI instead of AI) is constantly learning and adapting to the things we do.

In the beginning, when carbs drop, your mostly glucose running body sees danger! It sends signals that reduce your insulin, increase your glucagon and start making glucose from fat or protein - dietary or endogenous (your body) based on priority.

Most cells can use fatty acids, ketones or glucose but they just don’t. This machine has been used to just running dirty glucose for so long, every cell expects a constant and massive flow of the “juice”… when this stops, the obligate glucose consumers that MUST only run on glucose (for example red blood cells) get priority and the liver starts “rationing”. Cells that have their own mitochondria can use other fat sources than those simpler cells and don’t need glucose. It sends out signals that trigger those cells that can use either to start switching. This can take months to work effectively because it probably has not issued this signal since you were a newborn… and the cells haven’t seen this signal since either. Everyone is confused and trying to get a grip. The liver responds to this stress (cortisol) by increasing glucose production to keep you alive.

Then begins the process where fat starts to get oxidized. The fat liquid is made of a glycerol backbone with three fatty acids stick to it. Think of three flags on a pole. It rips the flags off and turns the pole into glycogen or glucose. Then the fatty acids become available for those cells with mitochondria that can use it. They also get oxidized to make some ketones that are quickly consumed. These small quantities of ketones can’t be seen yet because your cells use them up as fast as they made. Eventually, after a couple of days, this process creates enough excess ketones to be measured in the blood.

These ketones mean that you have been burning enough fat for an excess of ketones to be made and those are available for the body to use for energy.

As ketones come up, the liver relaxes a bit and the glucose can slowly come down to normal. In this state, the liver makes so many ketones as backup fuel that it’s inefficient and wasteful. It’s wasteful because ketones are either used or expelled… but in order to keep you alive, it goes wasteful… ketones go up and stay up unless it senses carbs again.

Over months, the body gets efficient and fat adapted and the liver gets smarter about how many ketones it puts in the tank. It hates to waste and if you don’t need it, it’ll stop making so much. So your actions matter.

So. When you take a reading, you’re “listening in” on the metabolic computer’s levels. High ketones and low glucose means you’re in deep fat burning mode right then… but if you exercise and consume both, the body will get stressed and make more glucose first (it’s faster) and the ketones will be low. You’re indirectly sensing the hormones insulin and glucagon and there’s a lot of ramifications to their levels.

The hard part of this is that there is an infinity of scenarios that would drive you G and K levels. You literally need to listen and try to understand the pattern of your body and watch its evolution… because whatever it is, it’s going to change as you change.

I personally use a GKI index = G / K

If you measure them in different units, you have to divide by 18.

When you look at my data, you’ll see my interpretation of what different levels of GKI mean.

But again, single readings don’t mean much… you need a pattern to make sense of it. It’s like the weather. It’s constantly changing and any one snapshot is meaningless.

Good luck and I hope this helped.

(KCKO, KCFO) #25

Love this!! Such a great way to explain it. Well done, YOU.

I have just recently started using the GKI. It is interesting.

(Tony Campbell) #26

Thank you Karim, that helped a lot. It was good of you to take the time to write all of that down. It should be stickied on the forum!

Just took more bloods. Post workout from this morning, and a light fatty meal of 600 or so calories at midday ( always my first meal of the day in my 16:8 routine). It’s now 7pm, so 7hrs since food and 9 hrs from exercise.
My GKI is now 1.26
So far, only 1.7 net carbs with one meal to go.

(Marco de Jong) #27

Although I’m already familiar with the processes you describe, I would like to take the opportunity to thank you describing the processes in such an understandable way. A lot of new people can really take advantage of this. Great work!

(*Tame Those Ghrelin Gremlins) #28

Depends on who you ask, depends on what your goal is. For me ideal ketone level is 3 to 3.5. That is where I get good energy and extreme mental focus. I can tell what my levels are just by the way my head feels lol. I can call out a number and almost always hit it directly in my guess. With lower levels I tend to experience brain fog and lower energy.

(Bob M) #29

And how long you’ve been doing this. After 5.5 years, I no longer get close to 3, even fasting 4.5 days. Got to 1.9 at 4 and 4.5 days of fasting.

(Ellen ) #30

How did you get there? Do you eat high fats before testing? What time of day do you test? I can read 1.6 after a high fat meal, otherwise I’m 0.3-0.6.

(*Tame Those Ghrelin Gremlins) #31

For me I just keep my carbs to about 10 and under. Close to zero. I’ve tested all times of the day for multiple days. So much so that I know the pattern. It just seems my body loves Keto. Having a coffee with coconut oil and salt and heavy cream in it, then a few pieces of bacon does the trick for me, I’ve done bacon and egg fasts too which work.

(*Tame Those Ghrelin Gremlins) #32

I’ve been doing Keto 6 months