I wonder how many of us have unknowingly drifted into an Atkins Diet

#21

I remember Dr. Atkins being pro-fat in his book, but maybe things changed after his death?

#22

Actually, when I began Atkins, going below 40 carbs for a week or so was aimed directly at entering into “ketosis” and we used pee strips to confirm it. So yes, indeed, the aim of Atkins was to get into ketosis.

Continual ketosis? For life? I can’t remember that.

#23

Obviously it all depends on the person and what you’re trying to achieve.

I imagine people doing this for the benefit of their diabetes will always stay in the 20g carb range and as a result will never technically drift into Atkins (even with a reduction in fat and an increase in protein).

#24

Well, the poor guy slipped on the concrete and whacked in the back of his head. I would hope no one would change his philosophies for his slip-and-fall death on fats.

(Carl Keller) #25

Of course I am. I just don’t really like to call the Atkins diet, the Atkins diet. It’s more like a variation or cousin of the ketogenic diet. All Atkins did was base a diet on 100 previous years of research and advice. I give him a lot of credit for making low carb mainstream but the idea was not entirely his.

#26

If you guys have not read them yet, pick up copies of The Wheat Belly Diet and The Grain Brain that I assume led to the popularity of Keto eating. They are great reads; right up there with The Obesity Code.

BTW, one of the best things about The Wheat Belly Diet is how it goes into depth about what is so horrible about modern wheat and other grains.

#27

You’re right, it seems the only real difference between Keto and Atkins is the gradual increase in carbs at intermittent phases of the Atkins Diet.

So basically the Keto diet as we know it, is permanently staying in Atkins Phase 1 (or on the flipside, the Atkins Diet was a conscious effort of making the ketogenic way of eating more user friendly, marketable and sustainable long term).

#28

This is one of the best threads brewing, thanks ChrisW.

(Running from stupidity) #29

Yup, agreed.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #30

I’ve spent more weeks than I want to admit at around 40 grams of carbs. And I stay in ketosis. But since I want to ward off Alzheimer’s, (which runs rampant in my family), I should watch my GKI, which means lower grams of carbs. But no matter how I stray, I have the blood tests, the BG and the weight to prove I am WAY healthier than I was before.

(Running from stupidity) #31

#WINNING

(Empress of the Unexpected) #32

It’s a generational Russian roulette with AD in my family. All on my dad’s side. My great-grandmother, in her 80’s, my great aunt in her 80’s, but of more concern, my aunt and half-sister at 73. Never, ever going to do a genetic test. I will just keep doing what I am doing - lower blood sugar fixes everything? - Duh…

(Robert C) #33

I thought keto was (per Phinney) sustaining a ketone level greater than 0.5 mM (essentially just ensuring you are burning fat for fuel).
You could eat the above keto example high fat, moderate protein, low carbs and still not be keto (because you are an outlier).
You could eat low fat, high protein, moderate carbs and be keto (because you are an outlier or an athlete).
You could eat carnivore and be keto.
You could fast to become keto (but that is sustainable unless your non-fasting intake also keeps you below 0.5 mM and you are not simply starving).

I do not know about a Venn diagram being necessary - I just think there are a percentage of people that, when eating Atkins can, through a combination of lifestyle (like being an athlete) and genetics, remain in ketosis.

I personally think it is a great and natural shift to eventually (maintenance) go toward Atkins from what people call the keto diet (80/15/5 macros for example) if they feel it is hard to maintain - as long as they remain in ketosis and find their cutoff by measuring for ketosis. It gives people a brighter future (if they feel hard core keto is sometimes a burden) and is better than falling off the wagon!

(Full Metal KETO AF) #34

This is true. The Atkins Diet is the keto diet for a different reason than keto was intended for (epilepsy seizure control and reduction). The Atkins phase 1 is basically keto without much focus on macros. The current phase 1 Atkins is <20grams or carbs, slightly higher or equal protein and fat is encouraged. It’s not a low fat diet. Many Atkins followers stay at phase 1. In my opinion phase 2 and 3 are a slippery slope that can lead back to carb eating :slightly_frowning_face:
When I found out about keto like 3 weeks into Atkins I changed course. My plan was to stay with phase 1 Atkins originally.

#35

Yep was just thinking the same thing and specualting why it eventually didn’t succeed long term. People would just indiscriminately be adding in more and more carbs.

(Karen) #36

When Atkins was developing his way of eating it was still a time when fat was considered unhealthy. So even his induction plan was a little heavier on lean proteins. To be in a keto way of eating fat must be high, Protein moderate, and carbs below 20 g.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #37

A junky can’t just use a drug occasionally.

#38

I did Atkins, probably still do, but it was always 65% fat. I think back then on the boards that was what we recommended. At least how I understood the 2002 book Atkins says you can eat more carbs if you are still in losing weight, I experimented with it and came to the conclusion that my carb level was less than 30 but some people did more and some did less. I read his books still now and then. Both his 1972 book. (it is wild) and his 2002 book.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #39

I find these discussions endlessly fascinating, yet at the same time infuriating. Surely a well-formulated ketogenic diet is any diet that gets you into nutritional ketosis and eventually fat-adaptation and keeps you there.

The lectures by Dr. Phinney on LCDU’s YouTube channel that introduced me to the concept of LCHF/keto were all older ones, from the days when he spoke of a “well-formulated ketogenic diet” as being one in which we ate less than about 100-125 grams of carbohydrate a day (believe it or not). It was also called a “low-carb, high-fat diet” by Phinney and the other lecturers at the same LCDU conferences, and they used the terms “keto” and “LCHF” interchangeably. The only place I have ever encountered the idea that “keto” means only under 20 g/day is these forums, and still sounds ludicrous to me that under 20 g/day is keto and under 25 g/day not keto, but rather something else entirely. (I know, I know—but that’s the way many people do post on these forums. Just saying.)

Oh, and by the way, keto was not invented to treat epilepsy. The diet already existed and was merely adapted to the needs of epileptics. It is a diet that uses an extremely high percentage of certain specific fats to provide its therapeutic effects. One of the reasons I believe people think keto is bad for kids is that this epileptic treatment is so high in fat that it can’t provide enough protein to nourish a growing child through the pubertal growth spurt.

The keto diet is the LCHF diet, is the Banting Diet, is the Atkins diet, is the Harvard Diabetes diet, is the Queen’s HospitalMass. General/Johns Hopkins/Bellevue/New York Hospital weight-loss/diabetes prevention diet from 60-70 years ago and before. They all say basically to eat the same things, and they all work by promoting nutritional ketosis.

Okay, rant over. You can all go back to making your petty, pointless distinctions now. :grin::grin:

(Judgemental? Who, me? I’m never judgemental, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for even thinking that! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:)

#40

But…

Yes, early on Atkins does promote getting into a state of ketosis to kickstart weight loss, but by phase 4 you’re encouraged to increase carbs to >100g to fine tune your maintenance weight, which could knock a lot of people out of ketosis and as a result it wouldn’t technically be a keto diet.

The difference between the two is that keto encourages ketone testing to determine your upper carb limit as opposed to Atkins which encouraged monitoring your weight gain plateau to determine your upper carb limit.

All Keto is Atkins but not all Atkins phases are Keto.

(Yes, a petty, minor distinction but a distinction nonetheless.):slight_smile: