SO! The Elephant in my Gym… I am Keto… Therefore I cannot make GAINS like Joe Bob the Carb loader that packs in 5500 Calories everyday and 90% Carbs from grains. … True? Or False? I made great progress and put on some nice bulk when I was in a state of Fat Adaption back in my hay day of Keto but it wasn’t what I wanted and it was a constant struggle to find balance. I didn’t know if I should add more carbs from veggies in hopes to burn them before my body noticed the spike… or if maybe I should pound the protein on in the same hopes… I just couldn’t make any sure fire methods. Now that I am new to this journey AGAIN! I want to know if there are any heavy lifters out there like me that are successful (staying in ketosis) and making gains! I am tired of all the misinformation and I want to hear it from the mouth of the horse… is that a correct term? Lol!
I want MUSCLES! or more
Sorry, not a lifter so this might not be helpful, but - I can’t tell from your post - you were keto and then left it and are now coming back? For how long now? It takes a bit to get the fat/keto metabolism back up and running. In the long term you’ll be better off than Bob the Carb loader but I think you probably know that already.
There are serious gym folks on here so you’ll get more useful advice from others. Can you check out @KBDelight’s experiment? I think he found he made some nice gains on keto.
Hi @Madeleine! Yes I am returning to the Keto world after what was essentially a nervous breakdown mid 2016. I put back on ALL the weight I lost and about 25 more pounds. I am in no way new to Ketogenics but I am new to this blogging thing lol. I am however foreign to the concept of maintaining balance in the gym and maintaining ketosis, when it comes to being a performance lifter. I will definitely take any direction I can be pointed in for help in this area, Thanks for your time!
After fat adaptation, you have to make a decision. Either eat an excess of calories and gain muscle, or eat a deficit and lose fat. Both along keto guidelines. No positive nitrogen balance, no muscle gain. No caloric deficit, no fat loss. If desiring fat loss, keep maintenance training to prevent muscle loss. I’d go for fat loss first, then when bulking, you can cycle carbs more effectively for muscle gain.
I didn’t try that at all, this seems like a good way to get results. I kind of just ran into the gym and started hardcore training while attempting to get into a Fat Adaptive state. This is a good angle, thanks so much @240lbfatloss
Fat loss first was the only way to make it work for me. I tried doing both and failed so many times. I had to completely ignore my muscles for a good 4 months while losing weight.
Here are some resources which may help you with your gain goals on Keto:
Sam lost fat and gained a minimum of 5 pounds of lean muscle over the 21 days. That’s pretty amazing.
I’m much more into strength training rather that size training. I enjoy being one of the smaller guys in the weight room (~155#) and still be able to bench more than most of the guys.
Still, if you want to gain some size, check out Pavel’s “BEAR PROGRAM” they used to use in Spetsnaz to create “show troops”. His books are well worth the money, esp now that they are on Kindle. Nutshell: Lifts on tightly controlled timed rest intervals. First set at significant % of your 1 rep max based off of your periodizaton system. Following 10 to 20 sets of 4 to 6 rep/set at 80% the weight of you first heavy set. 30 to 90 seconds rest between sets timed. Point is to increase fatigue to generate real muscle growth (not just pump the muscles up with liquid).
Pavel used to recommend the Atkins diet in his seminars back in the mid 1990’s…so he’s been pro low carb a long time.
I have gained muscle on low carb in the last year. Now, I do strength training so muscle hypertrophy is not my primary goal, but even with strength based training I have still gained muscle. Why don’t you try a hypertrophy program for a few months and see what happens? There’s nothing to lose. The idea that you can only build muscle with carbs or calorie surplus is nonsense, you need to thoroughly tax the muscles to break them down, and then eat enough protein to rebuild them.
Have you checked out ketogains.com?
The keto calculator on there is a really good one.
One name, Danny Vega. ketogenicathlete.com
There is also a podcast, Facebook page, instagram, yada yada yada. He know his stuff.
You can gain muscle no problem on keto, and also at a caloric deficit, it just won’t be as efficient. For the greatest muscle mass in the shortest amount of time you have to do carbs, no real way around it. You can target them pre workout and enough to last the workout but don’t plan on burning much fat until the insulin has gone back down.
KetoSavage Robert Sikes gave a talk at KetoCon on bodybuilding- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJsqrUKaEa0. Also http://ketosavage.com/podcasts/
Remember/ know Vince Gironda? The steak and eggs bodybuilder from back in the days?
Dave Palumbo, keto guy, retired body builder.
It can be done.
I’m a heavy lifter, not interested in building muscle but I see muscles.
You tear muscle fibers in the gym. When they repair, they will naturally repair into stronger bigger muscle fibers.
There is a Keto forum over on Bodybuilding.com. I was very active on it for years. It’s a great site for those training and using keto for cutting. It’s more specific in regard to your issues, as everyone on the board is doing the same thing.