I stuck my head above the parapet at work

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #61

That John Harvey Kellogg was one kinky dude.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #62

This is actually disturbingly brilliant. You should be watched.

(Alec) #63

Alas, the reference product my colleague was showing me did have the word keto on it. The problem was that the product was being deleted from the supermarket chain because of the price point and thus low sales.

I also said I would never buy anything with the word keto on it.

Ah, the joys of being in the food industry.

It’s actually super funny. I used to work in a business that made seed oils and margarines. I always thought we were providing health foods. 13 years ago, I joined this cheese company, and I was a bit… ooooeeeerrrr, cheese, that’s not very healthy, oh well, they still pay me, and I need a job.

I now know what is the health food and what isn’t. When does cheese get widely recognised for the health food that it is?

As part of my job, I am involved in making decisions about prioritising if we have constrained supply. I always deprioritise the reduced fat cheese, and tell my colleagues: The Devil’s Food.

#64

Like a strong and bitey vintage cheese, I think nutritionists need to mature through a few nutrition based health crises, or at least taste the fear of the pre-diabetes hyperinsulinemia eating plans they purport, before they sprout authoritative opinions.

That being said their are still middle aged Aussie nutritionist out there held in a 1980s time warp. Rosemary Stanton hasn’t changed her tune much for decades.

I hold dearly to the catasrophization that modern babies are born sugar addicted.

(Alec) #65

I am trying to figure out my response strategy to this nutritionist. Options:

  1. Ignore her. Move on.
  2. Reply with a one or 2 sentence reply, along the lines of “The studies you refer to are all epidemiology, and there is no proof of causation from these associations. Where are the RCTs to prove these dietary guidelines work?”
  3. Ask her what exactly she means by “healthy fats” and “proteins”. Lead her down the saturated fat debate, which I know I can win.
  4. Refer her to specific RTCs that undermine the guidelines eg Womens Health Study
  5. Smother her with as many studies that I can find that shows the low fat diet doesn’t work.

My instinct (because I am lazy) is either 1 or 2.

Thoughts anyone?
Cheers
A

(Kirk Wolak) #66

You are my hero!

(Alec) #67

Or I could go nuclear…

“You are aware that it has been proved that 80% of epidemiology study findings are false?”

I am not convinced that this approach will get me anywhere.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #68

This one sentence. Mic drop.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #69

I’d vote for all of items 2 through 5, because that’s the type of person I am. :grin:

Though, actually, 2 by itself is fine. And alternatively, you could give her a copy of The Big Fat Surprise or Good Calories, Bad Calories and really blow her mind.

#70

Nothing, but someone else has gone to the trouble of melting it and putting it in a bag and making it available to me while out and about :wink:

#71

Almost put me off Anthony Hopkins, that film….

#72

Not 1. Because then nothing changes. (I’m also lazy though, so I get you)

(Stickin' with mammoth) #73

You and me both. Dude is so good, I can’t look into those eyes without hearing “…with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. ffff-ffff-ffff!”

#74

Despite abandoning Wales and renouncing his citizenship, I still love the gnarly old git :grinning:

(Stickin' with mammoth) #75

I’m a quarter Welsh (a right tiny slice but I’m takin’ it) and I feel your pain. He gave up “Sir” for 'Murica. Someone should tell him keto can address multiple mental disorders and conditions.

PS: The Edge. If you haven’t seen it, see it. My favorite of all his work with a phenomenal soundtrack by Jerry Goldsmith and one of Bart the Bear’s last performances, may he rest in furry peace.

Okay, now back to our regularly scheduled programming… @Alecmcq Alec, you should do what I’ve always said I would do but never got around to doing because I have a lot of less important but highly distracting and entertaining things to do–write up an email of links to lectures, studies, and documentaries, sort of a gateway drug cheat sheet you can forward to whatever people need it, like that “nutritionist.” Make a science-heavy one for professionals and a light, fluffy one for layfolk who have no friggin’ clue yet. Print out a copy or two to hand out like The End is Near! pamphlets on street corners. That way, frustrating conversations can be reduced to, “Really? I used to think that, too, until I read this,” and then you foisting it upon them with a smile.

Tip: Try to list things that paint keto in a positive light rather than those that paint other diets in a negative one. If carb-addicts smell aggression, they attack or recoil.

#76

I haven’t and I shall :+1:t2: I’m a quarter Welsh too :grinning:

(Stickin' with mammoth) #77

Sistahs!

(It’s “chwiorydd” in Welsh but I’m too afraid to pronounce it, I might summon dragons.)

(Robin) #78

Please, do bring on the dragons!

(Joey) #79

My instinct would be #s 3 through 5 - none of which ever works as I have bad instincts.

Given what you’ve shared thus far, #1 is clearly best for all involved.

(Alec) #80

I think I am focussing down to a twofold response:

  1. Reference the work of Dr Zoe Harcombe who proves in her PhD that the evidence to prove the guidelines were correct was not there when the guidelines were written and it still doesn’t exist.

  2. Reference the study that was set up to prove that the nutritional guidelines were correct, and actually proved that they were wrong: The Womens Health Initiative.

I think the first one is a slam dunk, but she won’t read. The second one, she will insist supports the current dietary guidelines because that is what the study conclusions say. Those conclusions are biased and wrong: the only statistically significant result in the WHI was that the low fat diet resulted in a 26% increase in the risk of further CVD in women with a history of CVD. So the low fat diet was worse than the Standard American Diet. That’s what the WHI actually proved.

The problem with arguing any of this is she will muddy the waters… you can see her doing this already… she is arguing with hundreds of epidemiology studies [“they can’t all be wrong”], and mixing up real foods (“fruit and veg”) with macronutrients (“protein”). It’s as if she can’t bring herself to utter the words meat and fish. She is stating things as if they are self evident: “people are not eating enough vegetables beans and legumes”, as if it was self evident that these things have been proven to be healthy for everyone, which of course is not the case.

It is tempting just to drop it. Or I might simply reference Dr Harcombe’s work. What I really want here is to lead other people to question the status quo… I honestly don’t think these nutritionists will change their minds. I just want others to see that they are not right.

The other thing I am thinking of saying is that it is becoming increasingly clear that the root cause of most chronic disease is insulin resistance, and the cause of insulin resistance is the overconsumption of carbohydrates, which is exactly what the nutritional guidelines are telling us to eat.

More than happy to receive feedback on these thoughts.
Cheers
Alec