I need Help to Rebut a Canadian Nutritionist

(Ian) #1

I a good friend of mine who is considering going low carb, was informed by a nutritionist at her work place (she works in the medical field) that the nutritionist oes not recommend the keto diet because it cause a reduction in longevity.

This goes against my understanding based my perception of the combined benefits associated with reduced risk of heart attack, stroke, diabetes, hypertension, fatty liver, kidney disease, Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s and cancer Also it is my understanding that an increase in the good LDL (i.e. low density and big LDL) , increased HDL and reduction in triglycerides tends to result in a reduction in all cause mortality.

However this is information I have gathered by osmosis watching 100’s of online videos.

I would be grateful if anyone has a nice list of videos and/or research references that they could share that clearly refutes her opinion so that I can dump the science in her lap and ask why she thinks keto reduces life expectancy when the science says otherwise (presuming I am correct of course).

Thanks for any help you can provide.
#fightdisinformation
#fightbadscience

(bulkbiker) #2

I’d ask to see the evidence for that (because thee won’t be any)…

(Alec) #3

I think there is an epidiomology based study that suggested low carb increased ACM rate. I will try to find it. To be clear I think it’s bollox, but it is probably that study that the nutritionist latched onto.

It is beyond me why anybody takes nutritionists seriously. They are just so wildly wrong on their one and only area of expertise, I struggle to see what they are good for. [climb back off soapbox]

(bulkbiker) #4

Fun for twitter baiting I guess…

(Alec) #5

Well somebody with some kind of motivation spent a lot of time on the research. There is a strong anti keto current out there… lots of vested interests.

(Alec) #6

This is not the original research but a report on the findings. Sorry to OP @Knnn that this Is the exact reverse of what you want… but I think it is worth reading these kinds of studies and considering. That is the scientific method. We should never be blind to new evidence, just as we hope the anti keto mob aren’t either.

I think a good bit of searching and reading through the Show Me The Science section should provide the evidence you need. If you want anti low carb study rebuttals, Nina Teicholz and Zoe Harcombe are good places to start.

(Carl Keller) #7

If eating single item, unprocessed, whole foods decreases life expectancy, then the human race has no business being alive and should have gone extinct long ago. :roll_eyes:

A nutrionist can argue with a million years of human evolution all he or she likes but the fact is that a high carb way of eating is relatively new in the homo sapien timeline. How, all of sudden, is eating a high carb diet best for us when it’s only been an option in the last 1% of our existence?

(Carl Keller) #8

@Alecmcq From that epidemiology study:

"We found that people who consumed a low carbohydrate diet were at greater risk of premature death. Risks were also increased for individual causes of death including coronary heart disease, stroke, and cancer.

… is a pretty reckless conclusion. I can up the ante with 23 studies that are not based on surveys. If you can agree that high HDL and low triglycerides predict a lower chance for cardiovascular disease then the science in these studies suggest the above quote is misguided and dangerous:

(Ian) #9

Agreed, but I am hoping that if I can challenge them to look at new data that they are not aware of, I might be just able to convert them and make a little difference in the world of disinformation and anti-ketoism.

I recognize that I am probably delusional in my hope, but I think I have to try, every little nudge in the righ direction probably helps.

(Ian) #10

Thanks Carl, those are the types of studies I am looking for.

I would like to provide a pretty overwhelming array of studies and research that the Nutritionist might actual question their knee jerk assumption and automatic kow-tow to the latest nutrition guide.

You would think a professional person would know better.

Any additional links would be most appreciated

Cheers.

(Alec) #11

There are lots of weaknesses of epidemiology in the diet arena, and data collection is a key one. Most of these studies are based on very very shaky data collection eg one off surveys, and they then compare what someone said once about their diet with future health events many years in the future. This is very shaky “science”. In fact, it’s really not science, it is data analysis. We shouldn’t call epidemiology science: it gives it too high a credibility factor.

I am not sure if this is the study, but I remember there was one such study that deliberately removed anyone with T2D for some reason. And then they concluded that low carb diets didn’t help. Duh!

This is why the published research on published research concludes that 90% of published research conclusions are wrong. On this basis, on average if you looked at every piece of research and did the exact opposite of what it says, you would on average be doing well. Gulp!

Another issue is the strength of the association and conclusions about causation. The Bradford Hill standards on required association levels to have a decent likelihood on causation is 200%. In this study referenced above the association was 120-130%. Nowhere near strong enough to imply causation, yet there they are in the conclusions doing just that.

(Carl Keller) #12

I wonder what Galileo and Newton would think about the mockery that science has become? Nowdays it’s just another marketing or political tool. The truth is often the step child of modern science.

(Alec) #13

There is no doubt that science has been hijacked as a marketing and political tool. The word science has a halo around it that if you can make it stick to an idea or theme, you are onto a winner.

(Murphy Kismet) #14

From my experience, if your friend talked to a nutritionist about keto—checking with the “professionals”—than I’d presume she trusts the System more than she’d trust a layman. And it might be a lost cause. She’ll make her choice based on what she believes to be the Truth.

#15

Without knowing specifically what their concerns are, other than maybe that study Alec linked above, it’s hard to pinpoint the refuting evidence. I mean there is just so much data out there now, it’s kinda hard to narrow it down. :grin:


#16

The results were confirmed in a meta-analysis of seven prospective cohort studies with 447,506 participants and an average follow-up 15.6 years, which found 15%, 13%, and 8% increased risks in total, cardiovascular, and cancer mortality with low (compared to high) carbohydrate diets.

Wow. That really is some loose association. I mean, they’re not even talking about keto, just an association with carb quintiles or something. No controls for confounders either, I’ll wager.

#17

I find it counterproductive to help people find information that is there and freely available if they are open to it and take a look.

If your friend wanted to she could find this info herself as she works in the medical field…that she hasn’t would seem to indicate that you are bashing your head against a brick wall…and there is resistance from people who are closed minded that no ammount of evidence will change.

Why would you do the work your friend should be doing for herself? She chose her dietician…presumably if she works in the medical field she has choice and can do her own footwork.

Sorry to seem cold but there is a saying “Help is the sunny side of control.” You really cannot control other people’s choices, sad as that is. When you do try, often it is received as persecution and unwelcome.

(Rebecca 🌸 Frankenfluffy) #18

New poster here - afraid I can’t answer the question directly, but I’d like to say that I’d much rather live better and shorter than longer and sick!

That said, longevity would of course be nice…

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #19

I’m glad the people who helped me learn about keto didn’t feel that way.

(Rebecca 🌸 Frankenfluffy) #21

I didn’t see this now-deleted post so I do hope I haven’t caused offence. To clarify, I think a keto lifestyle is an incredible life-improvement tool and indeed I have adopted this WOE as a tool to live both better AND longer.

And all the better if it improves rather than limits longevity. What I meant was, if I am going to live longer then I want it to be a healthy old age rather than a sick one.

And being here, I feel sure that it will be.

:smiley:

(Edited for spelling)