I need help quitting dairy products

(Denise) #1

I think I might do better without the dairy (butter, yogurt, mozzarella cheese). I love those 3 as much as I ever loved sugars, breads, and gut-bombs :cry: It makes me real sad to think of losing more of my fave foods, but my health has to come first.

I was just diagnosed with a-fib, and was reading an article, actually a personal review from a lady that quit gluten and dairy, and her a-fib went away. There were some supplements she took as well like magnesium. But anyway, I have this awful post nasal drip also. Itā€™s even worse than itā€™s name as some of you know, maybe Post Nasal Baby would be a better name.

I think mine is at least partially LPR (silent reflux) but also allergies. I have it year-round, but some times are worse than other. it feels like I have to swallow all day long, but itā€™s like it doesnā€™t get rid of the ā€œlumpā€ in my throat. Have to give the details because if anyone has dealt with similar, found the answer, Iā€™m hoping I can fix mine too.

Most mornings I donā€™t realize until I try to make a phone-call, or say something to my little dog, that my voice is almost gone because of the PND/LPR whatever it is. I canā€™t cough it up, but things like a home-made Neti Pot help a little, steam etc. Sometimes if itā€™s bothering me at bedtime Iā€™ll either do a few swallows of baking soda that seem to help a little. Itā€™s never really gone, my throat is never clear as you can imagine.

People always mention dairy being bad for anyone with sinus issues so itā€™s time for me to quit my dairy and see how things go. So I looked for some non-dairy alternative for my 3 foods that are dairy. All I came home with was some Vegan Butter called Miyokoā€™s European Style Cultured Vegan Butter. Thereā€™s a mouthful, and Iā€™m hoping it tastes better than it sounds. 100% Crafted from Plants, crafted??

Any feedback on either replacing dairy with an alternative, or just deleting it altogether is welcome as always. Someone had mentioned Ghee in a very old thread I found here, but I found some at our Grocery Outlet and it was made from milk, or with milk, so I donā€™t want that. Maybe itā€™s just half as much dairy, but I seem to do best cold-turkey, just eliminating things.

What I really hope is that the red meats I eat often now, are not why I have this issue. I never was much on steaks etc. but for variety sake, I do my usual pork, fish, chicken, turkey, and add the red meat in now too.

The end, I bet you thought Iā€™d never shut up :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

(Stickin' with mammoth) #2

Have you experimented with casein levels? Some people can tolerate cheeses with low casein. Cream has less than milk, too. I do better with cream so I use only that.

Barring that, instead of cheese substitutes, Iā€™d look for treats that mimic the fat content and mouthfeel, like cocoa butter, bacon nectar, aspics, patĆ©s, etc. so you donā€™t feel deprived.

In other news, a friend who reacts to dairy uses ghee with no problems, but thatā€™s them.

In the end, dairy is kinda like sugar in that itā€™s usually better to just cut it out and white knuckle it until the cravings are over. Ainā€™t life grand.

(Denise) #3

Iā€™ve only heard of casein in foods, probably dairy, but I didnā€™t pay much attention. Iā€™ll look into now though because I figure if I can make changes by dropping dairy, then there will be my answer. If it doesnā€™t change anything with the PND, then I would really be surprised. The A-fib would probably take longer to know, but maybe not. Iā€™ll just have to do it and see. I ate all 3 things today, so I havenā€™t stopped them all yet. Iā€™ve done it for just one day but that didnā€™t make a difference, no surprise there :slight_smile:
Thanks for your input and Iā€™ll be taking notes here :slight_smile:

(Stickin' with mammoth) #4

Sounds like a plan. I know I certainly do better on lower casein cheeses. You could experiment with an elimination diet by only eating one kind of dairy a week and seeing if anything changes. That way, you might not feel too deprived. Good luck and I hope you find your answers.

#5

Taking a restrictive line is tough and one that we can all relate to as it can feel on the edge of deprivation. The eating psychology of restriction and deprivation uses some very spicy words.

ā€œDairyā€ is a wide range of mammalian milk based food products. So, restricting dairy may actually mean identifying problematic proteins or sugars and eliminating those.

Dairy has some addictive qualities due to the morphine mimicking natural compounds in it. It can take awhile to reduce. It took me two months to ease the cheese. I still have some heavy cream and butter in recipes. But dairy foods, especially problematic ones, can be reduced. It can be done.

As an anecdote, the cleaner I eat, the better I feel. Focussing on nutrient dense (animal-based) eating, rather than restricting, got me to the same place as restriction - I just donā€™t want to eat, or crave, previous problematic foods. But the cleaner I ate the side effects were some hormone readjustments that revealed other factors, like body electrolyte losses, that needed rectifying toward optimising diet and health.

I have a few yearsā€™ experience with paroxysmal AF. Episodes are actually predictable these days. I treat it at home with no medications. I do supplement magnesium in different forms as the food stuffs available here do not provide what I need. But the AF treatment and control in my case is being attuned to micronutrient electrolytes and electrolyte loss at its core. In my case it is not dairy food associated. I take salty beef bone broth as a delicious mitigation.

(Denise) #6

I appreciate the info Iā€™ve gotten so far, very much, and what I am mainly going to do is focus on the A-fib, and Iā€™m starting with a very, good Vit, E that will be here tomorrow or Monday. Some package are delivered on Sundays so I hope it gets here tomorrow. This is the one I ordered and hope for feedback if you think there might be anything lacking with it. Go Here

I read a womanā€™s review on it, and she sounded very credible and Iā€™ll put it below. I do understand sometimes these are ā€œhoneymoonā€ reviews and people donā€™t come back to do updates. This is from more of a database of info with comments that I go to on occasion

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A fib and magnesius.JPG1063Ɨ559 95.2 KB

(Denise) #7

Hi Frank,

One thing I kept thinking about yesterday when I opened my fridge, is how do I stay away from anything processed or ā€œonlyā€ eat clean? My cheeses are always packaged, so is my sausage I buy. Yogurt, butter, and I canā€™t tell anyone I even know where I might get unprocessed. I know our so-called healthfood store is full of processed. We do have Farmers Markets that I donā€™t frequent, but I imagine I should make the plunge and just do it. It makes me want to move somewhere I am surrounded by people that raise, and produce the real deal. Before it goes to some manufacturer who pretty much poisons it for human consumption but we wonā€™t see that on the label :roll_eyes:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

Sausages and cheese are not the kind of food that advice is talking about. Weā€™re referring to what Michael Pollan calls ā€œedible food-like substances,ā€ the kind of thing that has unpronounceable additives in it, the kind of stuff your grandmother and certainly your great-grandmother would not have recognised as food. Traditional methods of preserving food, such as fermenting, smoking, cheese-making, sausage-making and the like are fine; itā€™s the stuff that takes a factory to produce that is good to stay away from. So a hunk of Cheddar cheese is fine, but stay away from the spray cheese that comes in an aerosol can.

(Denise) #9

Thatā€™s good info for me Paul, someone had said on a video that if it has a bar-code donā€™t buy it and it kind of stuck in my head. But what you say clears that up for me, your explanation of foods to stay away from makes a lot more sense. This is the sausage I buy and the label seemed ok to me, but thought Iā€™d show you and see what you think:

This is the cheese I get: Mozzarella

man, that ā€œedible food-like substanceā€ grossed me out :nauseated_face:

#10

I donā€™t eat dairy. I do like it, but I canā€™t honestly say I really, truly, completely miss it.

Making ghee is easy. Youā€™re essentially taking the milk solids out of butter.

I use an instant pot, but you can do it on the stove (Iā€™m not using the pressure cooker function, just saute mode - which is ā€˜heat from belowā€™). I have a post written up somewhere of how I did it - but honestly, itā€™s super fast and super super easy.

#11

I have no issues with either casein or whey and eat only dairy with zero or near-zero carbs to eliminate lactose. I donā€™t have any problems with lactose but donā€™t want the carbs. There are many zero carb cheeses - and many more with close to zero. I eat a brand of whipping cream that has only 3 gr of carbs per 100 grams of cream. Also, English ā€˜clottedā€™ and ā€˜doubleā€™ creams are zero carb, as well as CrĆØme fraĆ®che.

If I had to eliminate dairy from my diet Iā€™d be in big trouble. :heart_eyes:

(Denise) #12

So then if home-made from regular butter, it may taste the same or close, maybe different texture. Iā€™ll look up an easy recipe for it, probably several around youtube :wink: Thank you for the idea :slight_smile:

I do love my yogurt, and found a safe brand for my T2 Diabetes, has just 2 grams per serving, and I eat about 3/4ā€™s of a serving with my nuts, and fave berries, whatever I can find, usually frozen. I only eat 1 ounce of cheese a day with my breakfast. I want to drop the dairy to see if it helps the sinus situation at all, main reason.

(Denise) #13

My only reason, well, main reason is the sinus issue I have. Iā€™ve always heard dairy make mucus worse, and itā€™s true Iā€™ve never eaten so much cheese til I went Keto 14 months ago. But like I told @Septimius, only an ounce a day. But about a tbsp to cook my breakfast, and the yogurt is a 1/2 cup only a day.

#14

Rather than listening to the people (which thereā€™s a lot of) that think dumping dairy and gluten fixes everything from poison ivy to terminal cancer, either get yourself tested to see if you actually have an immune response to it or cut out one thing at a time.

Iā€™ve been diagnosed lactose intolerant twice by different docs. Guess what I still consume daily? YUP!

I show a very slight immune response to Whey, and no response at all to Casein. Raw dairy gives me zero issues regardless. Many times itā€™s what they do to the dairy and mangling the proteins that messes with us. Many people also have an issue with A1 Casein, and no issues with A2 Casein. Which one you get depends on the breed of the cow. A2 Milk is popular now for that reason, but most local farms especially if they sell raw milk are typically A2.

Everlywell does a pretty descent home blood spot food sensitivity test.

(Denise) #15

Yeah, I just think trying things for myself is best. I was tested for allergies, environmental, and the response was, Iā€™ve never seen anyone test positive to so many things. Well I wasnā€™t going to live in a bubble, those tests were taken years ago, and I said heck with it, ignored it. I got over asthma in my early teens, about 9th grade or so, and as far as food allergies. I can just try not eating one thing and see if it makes a difference, on thing at a time :wink:

Iā€™ve been reading up a A-fib, and just think doing the magnesium is good for now. Iā€™m not sure how much of that, or the Vit E to take so Iā€™ll take the mag the way I have been, 2 a day of the 500mg, and the E is 2 a day as well. The tocopherols and tocotrienal complex is something I will read up on to understand those better. Thanks @lfod14

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

Iā€™d be comfortable eating the sausage and mozzarella you linked to. The sausage has dextrose (a form of glucose) in it, but only a small amount.

#17

A Fib can be super medical physical issue or provoked thru issues like our food and lifestyle and more soā€¦it is a kinda catch all in a way but it isnā€™t in a way LOL

key being I was so irregular with my menu. PVC heart issues.
Once off diet soda and off all caffeine and eating extreme lc and into carnivore I literally ā€˜fixed meā€™ from this issueā€¦but I walked the cardiologist walk from exercise EKG which I failed but was the only patient to complete it that day in fine form? (Dr said boobs can make sensors read wrongā€¦who knew that LOL) and then I had a heart cath where the surgeon said OMG you got the cleanest arteries, what the hell are ya doing on this table? and then my cardiologist wanted me on statins due to chol. and said hell no to that HA but in the end, PVC and I fixed it thru diet.

NOW THAT IS ME cause my ekgs and my heart monitor thing I wore showed all kinds of crazy ā– ā– ā– ā–  and I thought for sure I was ā€˜gonna be a heart patientā€™ and freaked thru all this stupidā€¦in the endā€¦food.
simple as that but that WAS ME and my life and having no med issues to bank extra to it all, I found me thru it all.

Dairy is a massive wild card.
Dairy can ā€˜do alotā€™ against us and for me SOFT dairy is bad. Mozz cheese, yogurts, anything cheese ā€˜newerā€™ and I get the craps. gut issues. BIG AGED hard cheese in moderation when I want it suits me ok.

So yea, monkey more on what ya need and require and only way to know, dump it. Is cheese worth your heatlh? IF it can be a factor of better health for moving forward? All up to you to decide.

Who are you on your food intake?

Ghee doesnā€™t grow on an animal or can any cheese be cut from a side of a critter :slight_smile:

back to real food.

only then do ya know, ya know :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes::stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

go super basic in eating. go super fatty good olā€™ red meat and dump the dependency on processed anything and see how ya stand. Would be a fab way to try to go forward and if you do fab, add back in and see how ya do.

but we are ALL so diff. that the walk is very personal.

wishing you the best of the best!!

(Denise) #18

Iā€™ve actually been wondering more about carnivore. Iā€™ll read more on it specifically :slight_smile: This is actually my plan to try, so I agree itā€™s a good way to move forward. I want to feel as good as I can, and my anxiety/depression has gone through the roof, like bouts of it just come over me. I know others deal with it and I am grateful to have this forum, the people on it, to see how you all are building that quality of life back.

(Denise) #19

havenā€™t quit my dairy, but must have been environmental allergies as they are about 80% better now. Also make sure I get enough water intake.