I need help, please!

(Christy) #21

I am going to have to respectfully disagree. All of the excuses you mentioned can plainly be summed up as a lack of commitment. I, too, have heard all the dietary jargon & ever changing suggestions about what is “healthy.” The bottom line is, most people who attempt the Keto WOE are doing so because their SAD has failed them in one way or another, whether it be physically, mentally or emotionally, & are seeking something better. That alone should be enough evidence to understand that they have been grossly misinformed & no longer need to cling to certain ideologies.

If a person chooses to try the Keto WOE then they shouldn’t cheat themselves by half assing it. It’s a pretty basic set of rules. Follow them or don’t but, make up your mind one way or the other.

It’s a pretty black & white matter to me.

(Cindy) #22

Sure, but how many people would be scared off by ZERO? Or hear zero as non-negotiable, try to do that, and then just quit because they failed?

For some, zero is easier…for others, it can be very intimidating.

(Cindy) #23

And see my response to @Herb_Martin. Just because black & white works for you, doesn’t mean it’ll work for others. Yes, sometimes “tough love” is needed, but it can also cause people to NOT try keto. Or if they can’t be as committed as you are, it becomes one more failure for them to beat themselves up over and they go right back to an unhealthy way of eating.

Very few things in life are truly black & white.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #24

One of the best parts about a ketogenic diet is that it can be tweaked to meet a person’s needs. Telling folks to start at 20 grams is just that: a starting point. Nobody is denying that some people may do well on 50 and others may decide to include fasting. Still others may eat three meals a day and live at the 20 g carb mark. Telling people to just stop eating instead of offering suggestions that meet their needs is like telling a SAD person to just eat less and exercise. Not especially useful.

(Herb Martin) #25

This is why you always have the good sense to explain that it won’t be zero but likely somewhere between 10 and 50 and all they need to do is MEASURE.

It’s that simple. Anyone who can pee on a stick can do it.

(Kirk Wolak) #26

The definition of Ketogenic is as FEW carbs as it takes for YOU to be in Ketosis.

For me, that number is NORMALLY 5g/day. I recommend:

  1. Cutting to as few carbs as possible until you get into ketosis, stay there for 3-5 days
  2. Add Intermittent Fasting (IF), and no snacking
  3. Avoid all artificial sweeteners
  4. Avoid ALL fibers, and count ALL carbs

Assuming you do that, you will quickly run into success. Then, from there you can play around.
For some people, having caffeine will knock them out. Others (me) cannot tolerate diet sodas, or artificial sweeteners, and I also cannot tolerate non-meat items (Egg and Dairy Allergies, as well as inflammation to plant stuff).

Those things, if consumed, will knock me out of ketosis due to the Stress Response of inflammation by my body.

What works for Joe or Lisa may not work for you or me.
Focus on Fats, cut carbs, and have proteins sparingly is the best science. But YMMV.
Only drink Black Coffee and/or water or club soda. Nothing sweet.

What I have seen is typically: It works. Then the cheats start. Then they don’t realize the cheating didn’t hurt AFTER 30 days of being perfect. Until they cheated 3-7 days in a row. Then they can’t get back into ketosis. But they feel they did not change anything… They actually did, it just took a while to add up…


(Running from stupidity) #27

#whoknew? The issue isn’t aim, it’s usefulness.


But the peesticks only tell them they’re dropping ketones. It won’t tell them they’re fat adapted or even in ketosis, and they smack hard with the law of diminishing returns. So they’re pretty much useless.

Have never peed on a stick or pricked a finger. All that seems like unnecessary stress.

(Herb Martin) #29

Of course it won’t tell them if they are fat adapted and that isn’t going to happen for months or weeks.

The key is it gives them a CLEAR and EFFECTIVE guideline that gets them started, and will keep them motivated and on track.

They will quickly see when they screw up – and almost everyone does screw up in the beginning.

Almost all of them don’t have your knowledge or even half the knowledge of most people who come here for only a little while.

I can watch my wife who has a lot of knowledge doing so much better with the positive feedback.

To be clear: The meter is BETTER but most people won’t have that when starting off, and won’t know how to interpret the numbers either.

Stick pink? Good, keep doing that.
Stick purple? Great – you got this.
Stick with no color? You are eating to many carbs SOMEHOW or haven’t waited long enough yet.

(Barbara ) #30

Hi, I use the Lose It app and my understanding from the many you tube people is 70% fat, 5% carbs, 25% protein of your daily calories. So I strive for 20 grams of carbs, about 130-150 grams fat, and maybe 60 grams of protein. Don’t know if the percentages are correct but I try to stay below 1600 calories. I am female and have plateaued at 156 lbs.


Are they tho?

They certainly are spilling a lot of ketones. Almost like their body isn’t using them efficiently.

I think pressuring newbies into peeing on sticks was one of the worst Keto trends, along with making them scared of protein.

(Herb Martin) #32

We disagree.

Sure they are spilling but it means they are eating EFFECTIVELY.

It’s unambiguous, and they will begin to fat adapt rapidly if they keep it up.

If they don’t pee ketones they almost certainly will NOT be doing it effectively and will never fat adapt until they do.

(Khara) #33

What’s strange is you say to measure with the ketone sticks and if a person sees no color change then that’s how they know they are consuming too many carbs. So then what? Don’t they at that point need to start reading labels and actually learn where the carbs are so that they can avoid or reduce them? You said earlier that newbies miss hidden carbs because they don’t understand what a carb is but… they have to eventually learn what they are if the sticks aren’t changing color. It sounds like you are suggesting people just guess rather than actually learn where carbs are. I’d prefer to actually understand what I’m doing. When I started, it seemed pretty damn simple, eat as few carbs as possible. So guess what, I read nutrition labels. If it didn’t come in a package,I looked it up on the internet. It took very little time to catch on.

(Kirk Wolak) #34

What works for one person, may not work for another.

But I got someone who was struggling to use the blood tester… And she quickly discovered her “handful” of almonds and her KETO Lemon Cookies were taking her out of Ketosis.

If you are PERFECT and doing WELL… Then I agree… Why measure. But when you hit a wall, or a stall, it would be nice to know that the New Coffee brand you chose is not right for you. This just happened to me. my ketones capped and my glucose stayed elevated. 3 days back on the old coffee and everything is fine. Externally, I was just stalled… Seeing what was going on, led to the reailzing it started the morning after I had the new coffee!

(Ms Hanson) #35

…she quickly discovered her “handful” of almonds and her KETO Lemon Cookies were taking her out of Ketosis…

Almonds? Really? Oh dear!

(Ms Hanson) #36

I don’t lose nearly as quickly as I would like - certainly not the 4-5 pounds a week that some people do - but I have been losing consistently about 1 pound a week average.

Also North of 60yo, similarly losing weight slowly & not at all hurried or worried. Dairy allergy means my healthy fat comes largely from plant sources. IM feels natural to me so prolly accounts for much of my progress.

(Diana) #37

I know this is old but reading this is making me a little panicked. Coffee can kick you out of keto? Is this plain black coffee or were you perhaps referring to a blend like a hazelnut coffee bean etc? I want to make sure my coffee won’t cause issues.

(Kirk Wolak) #38

The flavored ones MOST Certainly can.
But in my case, I drink Instant coffee. And a new company had added maltose, which I am allergic to.
That’s a case of just black coffee… But…

Next up, anything that causes a release of insulin can. And that depends on the person.

Usually black coffee (with no additives, etc) is perfectly fine. But some people react to the caffeine or the plant compounds!

Finally, I know that MANY people can stall by having HWC, and powdered BPC mixes. There was a nurse on here who was not making ketones, it was her sipping on coffee all day. A Shot of espresso is a quick hit. But for some people, they nurse it for hours, with every taste risking a slight insulin release.

Nobody can tell you what YOUR body will do. Not even I (LOL, I can barely tell you what MINE will do). So, have your definition of a super clean day. Live that for a day or two. Then immediately add ONE thing, like the coffee, and compare you glucose/ketone readings both in the AM, before/after the coffee, and the AM the next day. See what YOUR body says…

Again, I’ve seen such diverse reactions that it’s hard to say. My neighbor started having coffee before work, and one with dinner. Then, he started adding cream to the one after dinner. Next thing he knows, he’s drinking 5 cups of coffee with cream a day. He is in maintenance, but it was an eye opener for him.

BTW, when you find out something about YOU, post it. It’s other people seeing DIFFERENT results than they expect that help open peoples eyes to the value of testing things for themselves!


What are your thoughts on decaffeinated coffee? Do you feel decaffeinated coffee will also spike insulin?

(Diana) #40

Okay makes me feel better. As I’m having coffee beans that I grind myself. It’s pure dark coffee. But okay I’ll need to take note of this and do the clean days like you said and then introduce it if I see any issues with a different brand etc. I only have one cup first thing in the morning absolutely plain as I’m trying to remain in fasted state until lunch. On a rare occasion I will have cold brew in the afternoon again pure black.