I need a combo Keto and pre diabetic diet

(George) #1

And it might not be do-able. I like the Keto diet because it works for me and I am forever trying to convince my wife to do it with me.
However she is pre diabetic and needs to control her sugar. Additionally she is Asian and will have a hard time giving up rice. I love bread like she likes rice and the Keto breads are acceptable. Not so with the cauliflower rice. That stuff is dreadful.
So is there a modified Keto diet that we could both follow that would be good for pre diabetics? And maybe once in a while throw in a cup of rice.

Thanks

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2
(Laurie) #3

Hi George. Keto could be good for her. As for the rice … I think we’ve all had to give up some favorite foods. It sounds like you think since you get to eat keto bread, it’s not fair that there’s no rice equivalent for her. Maybe you could give up your bread in solidarity?

I’ve never tried the shirataki (konjac) “rice,” because I dislike rice. But I have enjoyed shirataki pasta. The shirataki angel hair resembles Asian noodles somewhat. Perhaps she’d find some solace in that.

#4

Keto is great for diabetics. I’m a type 2 diabetic.

Before keto, I had an A1c of 7.3 while using both insulin and metformin. Since starting keto nearly four years ago, I no longer use T2D medications and my A1c has been as low as 5.2 without them. I was able to stop insulin immediately and weaned off the metformin months later.

What kind are you using? I found I hate freshly riced cauliflower. Too much of a musky flavor for me. But I find the frozen riced cauliflower to be more neutral, similar to regular rice. To me, things like rice and pasta never had much taste of their own (other than Minnesota wild rice), but were primarily delivery vehicles for other things with flavors, including fats and spices.

Have you considered seeds as a replacement? For example, hemp seeds:

The Serious Keto YouTube channel has been doing experiments on “resistant starch” lately:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=serious+keto+resistant+starch

I wasn’t too encouraged by the results, though there is this claim:

In this study, rice was cooked with 1 teaspoon of coconut oil, about ½ cup of rice and simmered for 40 minutes or boiled for 20-25 minutes, it was then placed in the fridge for 12 hours to cool. The Sri Lankan researchers found that the calories were reduced by 50-60%, and tested this using 38 different kinds of rice, all with the same results.

Cooking rice in this way, increases the resistant starch, which is not absorbed into energy or fat and has no calories, the resistant starch in the rice was increased by up to 10 times."

"This is because the coconut oil enters the starch granules during cooking, changing its architecture so that it becomes resistant to the action of digestive enzymes, Mr James explained.

This means that fewer calories ultimately get absorbed into the body.

The cooling for 12 hours is essential, but reheating the rice for consumption does not affect the RS levels, he said.

As far as I know, Serious Keto plans to do a similar test.

(Jack Bennett) #5

A major goal/result of a ketogenic diet is to control blood sugar. Eating very low levels of carbohydrate really limits glycemic excursions because almost nothing you eat affects your blood sugar. In that sense, it’s a very good diet for prediabetes, and for preventing it from turning into T2 diabetes.

A whole foods keto diet plus some rice sounds like the “Perfect Health Diet” by the Jaminets. Might be a good option for someone who refuses to stop eating rice.

#6

She could start keto + rice. I mean, do everything else as if keto, plus the rice. Then, week by week, decreasing the amount of rice.

Blood glucose (BG) spikes will come from the rice and as she’d decrease it, it’d only become better and better.

I think I’ve understood that for many people, if you eat the rice with fat, the BG spike is lesser than without the fat. The BG spike also depends on the amount of carbs in the meal.

Besides that, I’d add in intermittent fasting to have more time with low BG and low insulin.

If you don’t have a BG meter, consider getting one. Just remember that even if BG didn’t get too high after a food, it doesn’t mean insulin was low. I’ve read that one can have low BG, but at the cost of a lot of insulin and that isn’t good either.

The keto + rice would be then a low carb WOE. With the intention of making it lower and lower in carbs, to approach a very low carb WOE, perhaps even a real keto in the future, if she can get used to no rice with time.

If you do try stuff like konjac rice/pasta: the one I can find here smells like fish when you open the pack. Wash it, throw a bit of cheap vinegar on it, swish it around, then wash it again. The bad smell is gone. You can do this washing and keep it in the fridge for 2 days. Perhaps more, but I’ve only tested cooking for 2 minutes after washing and keeping leftovers for one day. It was fine. I didn’t like the rice, but the pasta is ok. I have it sometimes, with cheese and meat. Tasty!

Edit for a giggle: when will Uncle Roger test egg fried konjac rice? Lol

(Laurie) #7

After rinsing and straining the shirataki, saute it for best texture, etc.

I disagree that wheat pasta and rice have no flavor. To me they certainly do. I mention this only to acknowledge the possibility that some people might not like substitutes.

(Allie) #8

Keto is the best diet for diabetics

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #9

I got into keto without actually intending to do so. I was motivated by Dr. Lustig’s lecture on fructose (“Sugar: The Bitter Truth”) to give up sugar, and ended up feeling so good that I decided to go all the way and try that ketogenic diet Dr. Phinney was talking about. Can’t promise it’ll work that way with your wife, but it is true that every little bit helps.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #10

I live in China. It is true that a lot of my friends don’t really get how I eat. But not eating rice is never a problem. My friends all get that. They will fight me about fruit though.

I did make cauliflower rice for a lunch one time and if they didn’t like it they were at least polite about it. It looked like they liked it to me. I did preface that it wasn’t the same as rice. I think it helps a lot that I lost about 20 lb before anyone knew that I was doing anything weird. Visible results help a lot with convincing people what you are doing isn’t insane.

Asian people may need keto even more than us fat westerners. Our facility in gaining weight may actually protect us from metabolic issues, and let us know that trouble is brewing.

Reassure her that she is rich enough to skip the rice. Luxuriate in the richer foods and be happy.

#11

Normal amounts of rice aren’t going to cause an issue, I eat rice literally every day. My numbers haven’t moved at all because of it. A1C is still averaging super low (usually around 5.1-5.2) sugar is fine after eating it etc. Not a single negative has come from it, and plenty of positives.

(Jack Bennett) #12

tl;dr - I don’t think rice is the most significant problem in the contemporary Asian diet.

I would rank removing ingredients in this order.

  • seed oils (soybean, canola, cottonseed, etc)
  • fructose, especially added fructose (granulated sugar or HFCS)
  • glucose and starches

If you can reverse advancement of type 2 diabetes by avoiding seed oils and added fructose, you may be fine eating some rice.

My wild guess is that Asia was mostly metabolically healthy while eating rice with natural fats (ghee, tallow, lard, etc). When they got reliable sources of seed oils and fructose is when things went bad.

(Allie) #13

That makes sense to me too. The bad turning point for them seemed to be when their traditional diets started getting westernised, same as has been seen in traditional Maori people, and likely many others.

(George) #14

I had forgotten the oils, especially sesame oil. Thanks for the heads-up.

(George) #15

A lot of good info here. Thanks very much. We’re about to try the shitaki rice and Ramen.

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #16

I don’t think sesame oil is too big a deal, since it is mainly for flavor and you don’t use a lot. Vegetable, soy and corn oil for cooking is a bigger problem. I think peanut oil is sketchy too, if memory serves, but not as bad as vegetable oil.

When @ajbennett says seed oil, he means what most people call vegetable oil. Seed oil is a more accurate term. “Vegetable oil” is a marketing term, meant to make it sound healthy. Vegetables are good for you! How could vegetable oil be bad‽

That said, if your only goal is controlling diabetes, you can do that without worrying about oil quality.

I do think that if she is willing to give up all the carby things except for rice that would go a long way. If she decides later to give up the rice she can always do that.

(Jack Bennett) #17

Exactly that. This is the kind of oil that you see traveling across the Midwest USA in a tanker train: soybean, canola, cottonseed. The cheap stuff you can buy at Costco in a 5 gallon square box for the same price as a couple liters of good olive oil.

https://www.costco.com/kirkland-signature-vegetable-oil%2C-3-qt%2C-2-count.product.100334736.html

(Jennifer Adams) #18

Sugar and gluten. At least rice is gluten free!

(UsedToBeT2D) #19

Perhaps rice is not so bad if you’re healthy weight and cut out all the sugars and processed foods. Haven’t Asians been eating rice for 100s of years without the maladies of a modern diet?

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #20

A Japanese friend of mine heard all the westerners say rice makes them gain weight so she tried to eat enough rice to gain weight. She couldn’t do it. So, yeah, I think if one has a healthy metabolism rice is fine. I am not willing to experiment with it right now, but if I can maintain a healthy weight for a loooooooong time, I might give it a try.

I think being pre-diabetic is a good time to try cutting out the rice. But there is such a strong cultural bond to rice for a lot of people, so it seems reasonable to cut all the other carbs first and give yourself time to get used to the idea.