I’m part of a few Keto FB groups, mainly out of curiosity to see how others approach this lifestyle, not for actual advice. I come here for that:-) Something I’ve noticed is it seems like only a small percentage of people trying Keto care enough to actually do the research and do it properly. All they focus on is fat bombs and cheesecake. You wouldn’t believe how often destructive advice is given and it seems to revolve around the inability to give up carbs. Yesterday a newbie asked if she could eat SF instant pudding. The majority told her as long as you use HWC it should be okay. I had to explain that adding a high-fat dairy doesn’t make something Keto. It wasn’t welcomed advice. Doctors are already reluctant to recommend this lifestyle probably because they know most people aren’t going to do it correctly, and/or constantly go on and off of it.
I Hope Keto Doesn't Get A Bad Reputation
wow on that one…bet some wanted to lynch you didn’t they?
all ‘eating plans’ get murdered by everyone out there.
best thing is weed thru the forums to find the real people getting real results. I went thru doozies of forums trying to find the best of the best. Some of the worse advice is out there, not one doubt about that 
Anything good can be jacked up to represent the bad of it…in all aspects of life. Sad but true.
You keep explaining WHY things should not be considered good on a keto plan if you see it, best anyone can do is print truths out there on what the plan is about and the traps and bad advice that floats around.
I was on World Carnivore Tribe which is Baker’s site and I got murdered and ran out of town basically. I said any veg. is not carnivore and I got replied that I didn’t know what carnivore was, to some it is 70% meat and 30% whatever you want that was eaten ‘back then’ like, it was ok to eat blueberries cause they were in season…OMG! Some are more like Caveman or Paleo and say they are carnivore. I was like, you gotta be kidding me, on Baker’s site, ya’ll think carnivore is 70/30, 30 eat seasonal fruit and more? But they tore me up and while a ton of carnivores agreed with me, those people eating this 70/30 ripped me a new one HAHA I left that useless site fast LOL Sometimes we can’t win, you walk away and say eat what ya want, I will go off and find a forum that understands the darn plan and direct everyone there and not to the crap site So yea I get your post 
it’s rough out there!
Exactly! Keto is not a loose term. If you aren’t in ketosis you aren’t keto. It’s not a matter of opinion.
Why would SF (sugar-free?) instant pudding made with HWC not be keto-friendly? Of course, it sounds like a processed food, not a health food. Not something to eat all the time.
But if it’s got few enough carb grams, it would be “dirty keto” compliant, right?
(Still doesn’t make it a good thing to eat every day, of course.)
Why would you torture yourself with that? FB is almost worse than Reddit.
Here’s the problem, it would be fine for almost all people. I use that stuff in deserts, I believe it has like 5g per serving? There’s two very different mindsets with this stuff. There’s the mindset of doing things “ideal” which wouldn’t like it, but in reality it shouldn’t cause issues for most people unless over consumed. Then there’s the ingredients purists, which would have an issue from the ignoreable amounts of cornstarch and maltodextrein in there. But again, most people wouldn’t suffer any issues from something like that. I’m all for eating as much quality stuff as possible but at some point reality needs to set in and for most people going 100% in just isn’t going to be achievable in the long term. Same with the artificial sweetener hatred many have, that’s fine, but how many people are (really) OK never tasting anything sweet again? But then we say keto isn’t restrictive? It took me years to realize I could eat considerable more carbs and be fine, but my fat had to be somewhat throttled for me to loose bodyfat. Sticking to the cookie cutter plan worked for a while, then it didn’t. People have to play with stuff.
I’m the first to hate on this trend of sticking MCT oil in everything that’s low carb and calling it “keto” but by definition Canola oil is keto friendly. Not friendly in any other way but that’s kinda a whole different thing.
Sadly helping people on FB is a waste of time, even if you put up good info it’ll be lost with the idiotic way FB shuffles things and most will never find it, just a disconnected mess of info that doesn’t line up. FB can’t do the job of a Forum, this place is the best proof of that.
I think I read this from you but managed to forget. My mind just can’t compute this. Vegetable and fruit isn’t carnivore… In tiny amount I can understand (and I do that but that’s why I call it carnivore-ISH) but 30%? That’s PLENTY. And what is the percentage, volume, weight, calories? 
But it doesn’t matter.
People love this labelling thing but doing what it means is too much. It’s like “vegans” eating eggs and even meat. They don’t understand they aren’t vegans and bring various sources to prove they totally is, historically and whatnot it was the real veganism (okay, I only saw that with fish)…
And they are the ones who confuse normal people so when I was a vegetarian, almost no one understood I don’t eat meat. They kept asking if I eat chicken (so obviously meat, I would think) and I just looked at them and tried to imagine their brain workings. I couldn’t.
Many diets get bad reputation because the ignorant, lazy, trying-not-well-blaming-the-diet and idiotic ones. We must live with it. Fortunately it doesn’t keep me living my chosen woe.
It’s kinda individual what we call “keto”. I kind of consider “keto” something that’s very low-carb? But this is very vague, I don’t actually have a real definition for it.
And I eat plenty of non-keto things, whatever that means.
I do have a definition for keto as a woe. If the one in question goes and stays in ketosis, it’s keto in my books. But even the <20g carbs definition allows any items, theoretically at least, sometimes it’s not doable to eat something on keto. Banning food items isn’t general. I can stay ketosis while eating very high-carb items every day. Not much, obviously but very possibly enough to be worth it (it’s not the true for me for every day but there was such a time).
You are right. I’m probably a glutton for punishment. At best, I’m ignored. At worst I’m called the Keto Police and told to mind my own business. These people are asking for advice and don’t like what they hear. If it weren’t for someone pointing out to me that maltodextrin was another name for sugar and spikes BS as much as real sugar, I would still be on a weight roller coaster and confused as to why I couldn’t lose weight eating prepackaged low-carb foods.
As far as the pudding - what are the odds that a carb addict would eat 1/2 a cup (1 serving) that has 7 carbs before adding dairy? I think half the victory of going keto is to recover from carb addiction, not just keep yourself at bay. I’m a recovering carb addict myself I guess I just give the advice to others I give myself.
yea what I found out later from a ‘real carnivore’ that left the site too was that in one of Shawn Baker’s video chats he did, he said something about ----hey if you can’t go right into carnivore then walk into it, you know, go like 70/30—30 all meat----then grade to like 90% in your menu all meat and 10 whatever and then GO ALL into 100% all meat TO BE carnivore but somehow a ‘few lost souls’, which is now becoming a big part of that forum, ugh…think that he meant 70/30 is carnivore. Like the heard only what they wanted to hear but at this point, his entire forum is useless truly cause when people go all you read, oh yea I eat veg and strawberries and that is carnivore and it is a warped ruined site now. Useless to anyone wanting real zero carb advice. But it is what it is, and I wrote to Baker thru a message and then wrote to other admins but got nothing back, I feel like they don’t care one bit about that site at all, probably don’t make ‘good enough’ money for their time and wallets HA
I think you are right. They love to call themselves something, as if it gives them an identity. Words have meaning.
I think so many miss this about themselves. What the draw really is…not many can have 1/2 cup and stop. Not many can eat 1 slice of pizza. Not many can eat one Lays tater chip
This is not always about what we eat, it is what the food does to us and how we can enact real change. What that food does to us upon ingestion is key for me but again, many just won’t take that time to learn any of it. They want what they want, no one is gonna change them til they flip in their own brain the right way to progress. Most steps into healthy changes fit all ya know and some won’t even bother doing those easier steps heading into a lifestyle change.
First advice…eat real whole food. Many then want ‘keto products’ and ‘lc frozen dinners’ so at some point we can’t change alot of people if they don’t wanna change.
You are the keto police huh? I was called the zc nazi…haha…in a friggin’ zc forum LOL
It has maltodextrin and starch. Adding more carbs from high fat dairy doesn’t make it keto. One 1/2 cup serving would probably have close to 12 carbs. If that’s all you ate that day with about 8 more incidental carbs you could probably stay in ketosis. I don’t think it’s a wise decision to waste that many carbs on 4 bites. I think people who graze on sugar free candy bars and the like, are on an alternative sugar diet. They are consuming sugar just by another name.
Oh wow, yeah - that’s not a low carb food at all. We could imagine a low-carb pudding, but that isn’t it!
I always say that keto (and good health habits in general) isn’t about what you add. You can’t add fat and make something keto-friendly that wasn’t keto-friendly to start. Otherwise the SAD would be highly ketogenic because after all, it has plenty of added fat.
It’s all about what you take away - remove sugar, starch, seed oils, and processed foods of all types and you’re on the right track.
I had no idea what SF instant pudding actually is (if I want pudding, I make it from eggs, after all) but yep, it can’t be that then. You were right, it’s not keto. One may put it into their keto, it’s their right but it’s tricky and they usually should go into some other direction, not replacing carbs with carbs…
But everyone should decide what to do on their own personal keto. If I have only 20g carbs, I so don’t eat starches… My keto sweets were my lowest-carb dishes before carni. It’s ridiculously easy to eat a huge portion of tasty sweets using little (net) carbs (total too if we aren’t very much into sweetness but it probably comes later while instant pudding comes in the early times I imagine). A tiny carby pudding sounds odd to me but my food items may sound odd to others… I would say it’s tricky and not advisable but it’s their decision, it may worth it for them.
The people who had problems with your advice are probably in denial, illusions or something. What you wrote is true…
By the way, while keto isn’t popular in my country, some tiny instant oatmeals popped up in shops. Overpriced as every instant oatmeal and proudly stating they are “keto”. And well, the tiny oatmeal contains less than 20g net carbs… I even saw “keto meal plans” with carby food… They reminded me of the “one apple a day” anorexic (not-)eating style. But sometimes it’s truly way too carby and I don’t understand where the keto label came from. The author saw this word and liked it and slapped it to their latest idiotic braindump? No idea.
Only keto FB group worth bothering with is Daisy’s
If you are in Colorado there is a spin off group that is ok.
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Sometimes, you have to meet people where they are…
My buddy could maintain deep ketosis with almost 30g of carbs per day.
I could not get into ketosis unless I was 5g or below for multiple days. One bad day cost me 3 days.
He’d get knocked out one day, and back in the next without really trying.
What does that tell us? Bio-Individuality. It’s hard to say what people should or should not do.
I’ve just read about some “daughter” who is quitting this forum because we are mean, etc. Some can be. But some make their own excuses, and then pile on with “someone said it was okay”.
The challenge for KETO is that it is loosely defined as a diet that restricts carbohydrates to the point of getting you into ketosis (and letting you stay in ketosis). THEN the learning must start.
One I found Keto-Mojo, carnivore, fasting. My life seriously made a turn for the better. I could test foods, and found out: I CANNOT DO Diet soda! It causes an insulin release. (It turns out Stevia has a place in the world, LOL, because after testing on ME, I can have some Zevia without and adverse impact on my insulin/glucose. But I am more metabolically fit than I was 3 years ago).
Finally, we have:
KETO, Dirty KETO, Cheap KETO, Easy KETO, KETO/AF, and the worse: KETO Food/Snacks/Desserts.
I call that last section the worse, because “How do you know” that eating those things allows you to get into ketosis… Especially when most people don’t know THEIR daily carb limit. Or what Dairy does to them (It will help kick me out, and/or drive inflammation)
So, we have a COMPLICATED METABOLIC Process that is broken, but usually fixable.
And we have ONE Word to bludgeon it with… KETO…
And it feels a lot like giving a child a bobby pin to test electrical outlets!
And for the record, Doctors don’t avoid it for THIS reason (IMO), they avoid it because they don’t completely understand it, and they APPRECIATE/RESPECT the complexity of the patient in front of them, then they realize this person has probably tried and failed to adjust their lifestyle 10 times!
@CaptainKirk thank you for that post. I think you really nailed the issue of what folk should tell other folk right there.
We are all our own n=1 and once we understand that things become a lot more straightforward in so many ways.
THANKS!
Yeah, and the reason WHY people are where they are at is TOO NUMEROUS.
I have a ton of food allergies, and when I eat an allergen, like I did on Friday, my body forces me to eat more to “Push it out”. I never noticed that until I got healthy. Now I don’t fight it. Yeah I gained 10 lbs in 3 days, but it’s all inflammation, I will lose it in 3 days as well…
I am also addicted to dairy and hyper-palatable foods (bacon/pepperoni/sausage). I’ve been trying to kick dairy since JAN 2020. In August I really pushed, but I had about 4-5 set backs. I am on Day 13 after the last 1 day set back…
Many people USE food/snacks to feel better. Going KETO is like killing their best friend (Dr. Cywes).
I know people who CANNOT give up their daily alcohol and weekly drinkfests. Hmmm, addicted to one thing, and transferring it to another. So we KNOW Addiction is part of this. Maybe not for everyone, but for many. Emotional reasons (When mom was proud of me… THEN I could have a Towne Club!)
Finally, STRESS is a HUGE Trigger for me. Cortisol Pushes my glucose sky high, and if I don’t get physical, INSULIN is kicked in to lower it, then a HUGE HUNGER cycles begins. I was supposed to fast this weekend, but between fridays allergy response, and a MAJOR Stressor Saturday, I ATE. I started with 6 Bubba burgers! [I wanted the KETO ice cream, but THIS TOO Shall pass].
Here’s to KETO without the crazy (hat tip Amy Berger). LOL. But even she has to NOT KEEP Mayo around, because she can over-consume it.
God Bless EVERYONE who ends up on the JOURNEY. The road is long, and it is usually never straight, but at EVERY point, you are probably where you need to be in your journey.
It’s frustrating to see stupidity, but it is hard to define it. There isn’t a hard line here. Do flakes of herbs on a steak disqualify somebody from being a carnivore? If I eat a single blueberry when I put together my son’s lunch, do I lose carnivore identity? How about if I eat a pickle? The point Baker and others were making is that there is not a technical difference in definition between a carnivore and an omnivore. We can’t define that line, but we can all agree that eating 3 salads a day with some apples would clearly define somebody as not a carnivore.
For many people, keto is very dirty, full of artificial sweeteners, packaged foods, and seed oils. Most of us here would agree that is a bad diet and not nutritious. But it’s probably better than a diet of corn syrup, packaged carbs, and processed vegetable oils, and it is a bridge between the latter and a nutritious keto diet for many.