I can't fast


#23

I was busy enough to ignore food once in my whole life :smiley: Eating is just too important for me and my body is very insistent when it wants its food.
I rarely wait until hunger though but one reason for it that I get the even more important, impossible to ignore “need to refuel” sign. It’s typically weakness and less of focus, in serious cases I lose balance and sight for a moment. I eat asap then. But if I have no way to eat, my body understands and tends not to do that. Once I was starving and never was particularly hungry (or cold despite the house was unheated in winter)… But if I am surrounded by food, well-fasted (but still on the first or second day, not like I have much experience with longer fasts but I get disconnected from eating there) and it’s already 4pm… Fasts usually get hard there. But if I still am fine, I won’t be in the evening. Stupid weakness ALWAYS comes since I tried out carnivore :frowning: My last (almost?) 48 hour fast happened before carnivore. It was already challenging (it need to be easy, no hunger, no problem or else I will eat, I am a hedonist) but together with others and making myself ready mentally, I could do it. Not anymore, apparently. I would need some extreme determination but where could I get that? My stubborn wish merely ensures I don’t give up this idea but it doesn’t actually trigger a proper tiny EF… I just want 48-72 hours, I have about 40lbs extra fat, I have some fasting experience… Still, some physical and mental problems arise when I attempt just a tiny, 45+ hour fast (if I skip a day, it hardly gets smaller than that).


(Shawn Patrick Malone) #24

I agree on being fat adapted. I also feel that for myself, the fattier and heavier my last meal was that it is easier to fast. Last night I had salmon and asparagus, today isn’t a whole ton of fun fasting wise. My last meal Sunday night was a rib-eye and creamed spinach, yesterday’s fast was much easier. I won’t lie though, I only fast for 16-18 hours. I’m not a fan of 24+ hour fasts. Just me though.


#25

Hi Shinita, it is an energy problem for me as I don’t have all that much energy anyway, and fasting significantly as in 24 hours and longer, lowers my energy levels, which is not something I can put up with when raising two very active boys. But my body is just fine with my two meals a day. A typical day for me now is breakfast (tends to be early because I get up early): a cup of coffee with just a little of my raw grassfed milk. I eat my first meal around 11am which consists of 4 farm pasture eggs and some piece of grassfed liver. After this meal I am pleasantly stuffed and can go all the way till the evening until my second meal, though I will usually have another cup of coffee. My second meal is usually around 17:00pm and consists of burgers/patties which I make from my grassfed minced meat, which tends to be either beef or lamb, for now. After this second meal I don’t eat anything till the next day. So in a sense, without trying, I am doing IF already as it naturally became this way on this WOE, carnivore. According to Dr. Ken Berry carnivore is still carnivore even if it includes eggs and dairy. I don’t eat any cheese anymore, but I enjoy the taste of my KerryGold with my patties/burgers, and cook my pasture eggs and grassfed liver in it as well.

If you are feeling like that Shinita, dizzy, with loss of sight, that sounds to me like a blood sugar crash. I used to have those all the time back when I was on a HC/LF WOE. I never experience it now on this ketogenic WOE, but I did experience a hint of it when I tried to fast, which tells me fasting isn’t right for me at this time, not while I am taking Tamoxifen. Professor Ben Bikman appears to look on fasting favourably, and has talked about its many benefits, but he also calls it a two-edged sword, it’s not for everyone.


(Allie) #26

So don’t do it.
Fasting doesn’t suit everyone and is by no means essential.


#27

Hi Allie, I’ve come to the same conclusion myself, it’s not for everyone. It was, however, something I wanted to try as I’d run out of my meats, I thought it was an opportunity to try a fast for the first time and then found out my body wanted no part of it, as my energy levels dropped dramatically. But it is something Professor Ben Bikman looks favourably on, and Dr. Lisa Wiedeman a carnivore doctor (who has been carnivore for 14 years and looks the picture of health) I’ve been listening to considers beneficial. But due to having to take Tamoxifen, I’ll put the idea of fasting back on the shelf and keep to my two meals a day, which my body is very happy with.


#28

It is clearly my body telling me it wants food… On keto. Never ever had anything like that on high-carb or even low-carb, only on keto, carnivore included.
Sometimes I get hungry, sometimes I get this state first. Doesn’t matter much, main thing I get the memo I should eat :wink:
I am very sure but if I wouldn’t eat, it would pass and I could fast for weeks until some real problems (as far as I still would eat sodium and maybe magnesium would be needed as well). No way I couldn’t fast for weeks even if it wasn’t enjoyable… But by my own will? Nope, I eat when I feel the need!

Maybe one day I will lose my patience or get determined and will figure out what happens when I ignore these very serious signs of my body… But this state isn’t fun at all so I don’t have an inclination to do it, actually. And even if I want to do it, it wears me down quickly… Still, a little push is possible.


#29

Hi Shinita, I agree with you that that state the body gets into isn’t fun, and I would see it as a definite sign to quit fasting myself if my body behaved in this way. With my two meals, I don’t feel hungry, and my body seems quite happy with the amounts, perhaps because of how bio-available and rich in nutrients the food I eat is.
I think though our hunger/satiety signals will vary. Some days we’ll feel more hungry then on others. And this has a lot to do with whether it’s a warm day or a cold day, I think, at least it has to me. If I’m cold I’ll feel hungry sooner than usual, but my solution to this is wrap up warmer🙂Then the hunger feeling tends to go away.

Anyway, I have decided to quit coffee. And I’m determined now. My roseaca is through the roof. I’m also going to cut down on butter and my raw milk to see if this well help, it does seem, from how my facial and ocular roseaca has flared up, that dairy is just too inflammatory to me, even perhaps the raw grassfed milk. I can’t eat conventional, pasteurised dairy at all, but perhaps grassfed and raw is also a problem. So when I next go to the butcher I’ll purchase some of their grassfed beef tallow, they also had free range goose fat, perhaps I could use that also to cook other meats.
It is incredible how much our bodies change on this WOE because once upon a time I balked, literally balked at the idea of going strict carnivore, I just couldn’t wrap my head around it, could not visualise myself doing it, eating meat, organs, fat, tallow, lard, fish, other kinds of seafood, water. And now my body is definitely headed that way, and I look forward to it. To really try it. Eliminate coffee and caffeine from my life, use up the rest of my grassfed raw milk, just 1l bottle, and then properly start carnivore. My whole body is eager for this.


#30

I remember my first on/off carni times, I used the word “surreal” a lot :smiley: Even while doing it for weeks, it was so NOT what I imagined about myself… It was the greatest change in me ever I think, at least regarding food, losing interest in vegetables (I still clung to a tiny bit of onion and tomato here and there but that was it. now even those are unimportant and onions became too sweet anyway even though we still use it in stews but it’s rare and the amount is unusually small. even my high-carber SO is fine with almost no onion)…
And carnivore showed me that I can change a lot way beyond fat adaptation. My sweetness perception did absolutely nothing on keto, it stayed as it was already some months after I cut out sugar years ago but carnivore made a difference. Probably because I stopped eating sweeteners and fruits. And when I added them back on off days, it made little difference, I still felt everything sweeter. It was quite interesting. And the lost interests didn’t come back. I do feel nostalgic sometimes and eat something I used to like and still like but it’s very exceptional. On a normal off day I go for my normal carnivore food just like always, I just add more extras. But the base of my food is the same.

I quit coffee now again. Today I still had some but I go back to no coffee now. I am drinking a plain tea at the moment, it’s nice to have something warm and while it can be water, I like variety. I drank a lot of water today already.

So you go stricter now, just like me. Hopefully we both will find it nice. I surely will, I went off on Easter for reasons and I am looking forward to carnivore now, I try to focus on SIMPLE already…


#31

Fasting has been described in the past as a “muscle”, I kinda agree with that. When I started making it 24hrs was hell, but the end I was a fasting machine at 8days. Which I was terrible at it, because fasting caused me a lot of hell in the end, but if your reasoning for fasting is just fast loss, you don’t need to fast to acheive that.

Unlikely, clogging up E2 receptors shouldn’t have an effect on your ability to fast. The fatigue thing is less common on it but happens, many times when it’s either over dosed for your needs and it’s totally crashing your E2, which if you feel like your brain is half shut off like you’re half in a dream / half real life, and somehow your legs doubled in weight, you may have.

Some people also have better luck when the fatigue thing gets them by switching to a suicide inhibitor like Aromasin, since it binds permanently, you don’t have to take as much. Different docs have different preferences there. But at any rate, you can’t live that way.


#32

Hi lfod14, I wasn’t fasting for weight loss no, I am thin. I thought of it more as a reset for my gut, to restart my system, a kind of cleanse, but the real reason was I’d run out of my precious grassfed meats from the butcher.
I would never switch from Tamoxifen to Aromasin or any of the other inhibitors, my goal is to be able to quit Tamoxifen in just 3 more years. I am positive I’ll have a lot more energy then. What you described is exactly how I feel on Tamoxifen, and it’s something I’ve got used to deal with. But my plan for the future is there, and it’s like a beacon, to be medication free and strong and full of energy once more. I am carnivore and have been for a good while now and this is what my body wants, my whole family thinks I’m nuts. But my SO has had to admit my lipoedema has improved, my skin is firmer, all my bruises that I used to get are gone, I have streamlined and my legs are looking so much slimmer (no inflammation + no water retention = better lymphatics!) the skin on my hands is smooth whereas it used to be horribly dry, my muscle strength has returned a bit (nowhere near as much as I would like to, but I’d take any improvement over nothing) so these are all benefits that are clear signs to me my body is healing. The only thing not healing (yet!) is my roseaca, that has blossomed up like my favourite spring cherry blossom tree and at 39 years old (will turn 40 this autumn) I have no desire to look like a pimply teenager. I mean I’ve always looked young for my age, but the pimple-like rash of my roseaca is so utterly frustrating. I also have ocular roseaca and a ridiculous sensitivity to sunlight. I’ve had this since my early to mid-twenties. I am convinced this stems from a poor gut which I made worse by going on long term antibiotics, and which I am trying to heal, I went off my antibiotics and am determined to stay off them now, and heal from the inside out. I am, as of today, quitting coffee and caffeine, as the more I read about it, the more I realise it’s not healthy, but will make a separate post about that.


#33

Hi Shinita, yes my body is keen for this change now, and simplicity and variety can still go hand in hand, as just think of all the different kinds of animals we can eat, and the different tectures of different cuts and even so, my body still prefers beef and lamb, at the moment, finding them so delicious.:slightly_smiling_face: I never expected to feel as good as I do on carnivore, and my body no longer wants anything sweet, like the raw local honey, like the tiny piece of mango, and even my raw grassfed milk my body is happy to let go, once I have finished up the 1l bottle I still have in the fridge, as I won’t waste good quality raw grassfed milk. The coffee though I’m happy to leave untouched where it is on my counter. I don’t think anyone realises just how good food can taste when you have, by eliminating sugary junk and processed foods, and narrowed your WOE down to only the foods your body wants to eat, how absolutely delicious each food will strike you, like a plate of pastured eggs, or even just ground meat. The food on this WOE feels like a treat everytime I eat. I’ll be making a separate post on Monday about why I’ve decided to quit coffee, and tea, and all manner of caffeine. I know I’m in for a tough week energy wise, but am now determined to rid my body of those substances.


#34

I am very much aware. I simply eat 20 different items for a meal unless maybe if I focus like CRAZY but that’s tiring. It just happens… It’s scary sometimes.
But I will try a bit harder. Not today, I already have my lunch plan with many different leftover items. Not 20 though, more like 8 so it’s something… But I count all my various egg dishes as one.

I wonder about that for me… I think it’s true, I merely immensely enjoy my sweets. When I happen to find the idea fine, normally sweetness just bother me. I NEED my desserts, that didn’t change but they shouldn’t be really sweet. I often prefer them unsweetened. Not all, some aren’t good like that but I can just skip those for a long time. Not forever, I really like my walnut pancakes and when I already broke walnuts since weeks without touching any, I get ideas… Originally sweet pancakes were for the times when I totally get bored of my carni food and this or something carby (my walnut pancakes barely contain any net carbs and I don’t care about total, my carni desserts are way carbier). But I just never get bored of meat anymore. I do it with a single type (a certain cut cooked in a certain way) but I always have other options. And of course, meat is the smaller part of my diet anyway. But I still would miss my walnut pancakes and they do no harm to me so it would be a bad deal to miss it. I could if it would be bad, I like it but it doesn’t mean I need it… But unnecessarily? Nope. It stays. But it’s an occasional thing.

I am a hedonist. Good food ALWAYS tasted extremely good to me, no matter how much processed sugary stuff I consumed. My tastes changed only in the meaning that I fancy other things and my sweet perception, of course. But the old items tastes the same - EXCEPT things with flour and without yeast (probably it’s more complicated but that’s the case roughly and I don’t care about the specifics). Bread and the like tastes way better than on high-carb for some reason (I guess the reason is that I know my own taste and I bake better bread. they are full with eggs if made for me, of course :D) but a cookie with flour? That tastes like raw flour, it’s horrible! I am sensitive to flour taste now. Except in bread. Flour tastes nothing in bread. That’s why I put plenty of other things into even my SO’s very carby bread.

Pork was a huge treat when I was a kid as I only could eat it a few times a year. It’s interesting that it is a treat even now, eating it every day… It’s one thing I don’t get bored of it anymore (if I don’t overdo it and I don’t as I want to taste my other items as well) but I still easily need to stop and be amazed how extremely delicious it is, I can imagine nothing better but if it exists, I really hope I never will meet it. That would be way too dangerous, I already eat without a need at midnight just because I can’t resist some pork sometimes (it doesn’t happen if I thoroughly stuff myself during the day but that only works with OMAD and I still rarely have it).
Sometimes my meat is a bit meh, the cuts aren’t the same, I am not always the same, it matters how much meat I have eaten before… But I regularly get amazed by the simple pork dishes I have. So I am a lucky hedonist. And NO filler to dilute the food joy :smiley:
But joy wise whatever I do is the best, going off all the time to add variety and nostalgic items. Sticking to carnivore gets old quickly and I start to get ideas. At least my rebellious inner self, nowadays I really don’t get bored of carni food easily. But I still get problems. I don’t want to figure out what would be best, things get solved, I merely should focus on OMAD. That actually helps with temptation, boredom and the like. And even if I go off, it’s way better with OMAD, I may have no problem at all then.

Good luck at quitting caffeine! I won’t as it doesn’t seem to do anything to me. I quit coffee for addiction and financial reasons. Probably more. I keep my tea :slight_smile:


#35

Hi Shinita, I think this boils down to goal and incentive. Unlike you, I am not healthy, though I like to think I am beginning to be. I went through auto-immune diseases, which I still have, my facial roseaca and occular roseaca, since my early to mid-twenties. I was at the same time diagnosed with macular degeneration, although I was only mid-twenties at the time. I dealt with brainfog, daily muscle fatigue and joint pain. I was then struck with breast cancer and went through 3 surgeries, chemotherapy and radiotherapy. I was battling through all that and vowing to remain active, but then I was put on Tamoxifen and those plans were dashed on the rocks. My energy levels are not those of a normal person, but I can get by, I just plod on, the daily walks, fresh air and countryside views help a lot. But I have discovered so many benefits since discovering keto, which I only did when I began to research my lipoedema and lymphedema condition that I had talked with my GP about, who then referred me to a local lymphedema center where I got great guidance on these two conditions, and free compression tights from the NHS, can’t argue that.:slightly_smiling_face:And they have helped a lot. But keto, to go back to that, was a real eye opener. I quit gluten, grains, sugar, starches, processed foods, on the spot. I lowered my carbohydrate intake over the night to 20 grams. My lipoedema pain and tenderness, joint and muscle pain was significantly reduced. I couldn’t believe it. All that inflammation and ache that had even affected my mobility at times, appeared to be going. My children could sit on my lap again while I read to them. My hip didn’t freeze up on me anymore, and I was no longer getting those scary shooting pains in my ankles that nearly had me tumbling down the stairs. I was still eating a few vegetables, clinging onto both variety and fiber back then, and some of my old foods, like dark chocolate. Then I gave up those foods, and became ketowore. I began consuming a ridiculous amount of heavy whipping cream, and would snack on small cubes of cheese every day, and well, my inflammation was still gone, but I was tired, and constantly bloated, but I was looking forward to that heavy whipping cream every day. It was an addiction. Until I began to realise my body wasn’t doing well with it. I was sick of being constantly bloated. So I switched to raw grassfed milk, that solved the bloating problem. And instead of conventional butter and cheese, I ate KerryGold. This is where I was just a few weeks ago. I also at the same time as making this switch quit my long term antibiotics. And both my facial and occular roseaca flared up something fierce. So now, I have, having read about the effects of caffeine, decided to give it up. And I have finally begun to ask myself if I am simply one of those people who can’t tolerate any dairy, raw, grassfed and otherwise. So I am stepping into strict carnivore, once I have finished the last of my 1l bottle, and my whole body is ready for it, as I have experienced much healing on this ketogenic journey already. I am confident that in time I will heal my gut and my roseaca, which may be the last thing to go, will indeed go away. Now as to the macular degeneration, I watched a very interesting video of Dr. Ken Berry interviewing an optometrist Dr. Lisa Wiedeman, about how she had witnessed the reversal of macular degeneration on carnivore. I will make a separare post about that as well next week.


#36

I wish you great success! It’s so unfair people have so many health problems even when they do whatever they can :frowning:

I don’t plan to give up gluten as it seems we (my SO and I) handle it very well. We had gluten free years and nothing changed and we brought it back. And pure gluten is quite low-carb and super satiating to me so it’s my plan B if I manage to get bored of meat :smiley: I don’t, good as I instinctively don’t want to eat it regularly. But it helps with texture sometimes.
I noticed many ketoers stop eating gluten but most people have problems with it so no wonder. But it’s one of the best flours I can use. I love baking and hardly ever will stop. And sometimes I want to eat the result too…
It’s very hard to find a carnivore “flour” I must say. I only have one proper: grated cheese (if I can buy or make it powder-y enough). I don’t buy egg powder and I can’t made it smooth enough. Just like ground meat (cooked meat, I usually use some boring lean leftover roast).


(Jane) #37

I went gluten-free for about 3 months many years ago and noticed zero difference, so I added it back to my diet.

Never tried to eliminate dairy, but I don’t have any symptoms that drive most people to give it up.

Just giving up the SAD-diet garbage I ate for years was enough to feel 1000% better!


#38

I felt pretty good and healthy on sugary high-carb too when I had it (I just overate all the time. too bad I didn’t push OMAD)… But it still got significantly better or low-carb :wink: Not better on keto (except fat adaptation) but better on carnivore.
And now I am a changed one but not enough.

No-dairy isn’t my thing either, I can’t do it with carnivore (I can’t live only on meat and eggs! way too boring and not enough texture), only tried a few days in a row. I had lactose free years (nothing happened, of course) at some point though.

And while I don’t have problems with gluten, it’s quite rare in my life as I try to stay close to carnivore and even on my off days I eat fruit and sweetener and nuts first, not gluten. But it happens and it’s fine.


(Kirk Wolak) #39

Honestly, this is SO INDIVIDUAL…
It could be the medicine.
It could be stress, lack of sleep, core inflammation (stress), needing recovery…

Dr. Boz makes the point that you should not be snacking, but don’t force fasting.
You should start working on your fasting AFTER you naturally are able to skip meals without trying. That’s the magic. It happened to me today. 5hrs of work, and I worked through lunch without thinking about it.

I suffer from a disease that severely affects my energy partitioning. I know exactly how you feel. Your body is like “I have NOTHING in the tank… What are you doing?”. It’s not that you don’t have body fat to burn. if your cortisol is sky high… Or you didn’t get enough sleep (imagine 1-2hrs of sleep)… Then your body is like ‘Sorry… Need Inputs!’ (That’s how mine behaves).

Watch the Caffeine it can be MASKING this. I don’t know if Adrenal Fatigue is real. But your note sure reads like it.

But it could be the meds as well. Or a combination. I am curious, do you measure your blood ketones? (I always look at Glucose/Ketone numbers. Plus my BP, and Heart Rate. And I can tell you if it will be an easy or hard day)


#40

Hi Kirk, thanks for your reply and thoughts. I have been on carnivore for several months and have been eating two meals a day. I quit coffee and caffeine actually and this is my day 4 of no caffeine, it’s been a little rough, started with worse tiredness, then headaches, but think I am starting to feel better. There’s a very good reason I quit caffeine and I will make a separate post about that on Monday when my boys are back in school. When I quit coffee/caffeine, my appetite did increase for a bit bumping my meals from 2 to 3 a day, as caffeine is an appetite-suppressant. My body may settle back comfortably into the daily routine of two meals or it may not. I typically finish my last meal at about 17:00pm and don’t eat anything after. I don’t snack. But yes, the energy … I don’t have an illness that causes it that I am aware of, but I have become very used to having low energy since starting Tamoxifen. I remember even through surgeries, chemotherapy and radiotherapy I had much more energy than this, so the Tamoxifen is a leecher of energy for sure. My hope is to quit it in 3 more years.

I don’t know what illness you have Kirk, but I firmly believe in the body’s ability to heal given time and the right building blocks, the body is designed to heal, and if you are not taking any medication your path to healing should be easier, but perseverance, patience and positivity is still needed, as healing takes time. Wish you well on your journey🙂


(Robert Tinsley) #42

I fast three days, eat two days OMAD, fast three, eat two, etc, etc.

The first times I started fasting, just one day in a week, it was extremely difficult, I felt horrible and I craved the food. But now I feel so much better fasting and I know my energy will crash when I eat. I have done five and six day fasts, and felt excellent throughout too.

Note, If I eat ANY calories, or anything with taste, it messes me up, if I’m pickling some onions for the future, and have a tiny bite of raw onion, nope… Messes me up. Water only, no low calorie/nocal drinks, no herbal teas, not nothing. Water, and a potassium supplement pill for some electrolytes. Anything but water messes with me, and throws me off. I’m not sure whether it’s psychological or physiological or both, Nothing but water, and it took me awhile and a lot of discomfort, to figure that out.

So fasting took me practice to first learn and was mostly a mental thing, and then strict discipline to make it easier for me.

As for the bodyfat hypothesis. I’m skeptical. You would have to be so frail and thin as to be very close to death to be physiologically unable to fast.


(Robert Tinsley) #43

Oops, I just noticed I’m trying to revive the dead, this thread is a year old, and I didn’t even read the whole thread through before I replied.

Sorry guys, I don’t do alot of social media.

I’ll learn.