I am new starting today. I need to lose 60lbs

#62

And why don’t you just eat more proper food then? Whatever it is for you :slight_smile: Mine is some nice, moderately fatty, satiating pork :slight_smile: Fattier stuff if I know I ate lots of protein and lack fat, not like I often have that situation.

If that results in clearly too much eating, you probably eat something that interferes… But you are still in the beginning, don’t worry about eating too much. Eat little carbs and enough (and the right kind of) food to get satiated.

As I look back, you were already told several times you should eat enough without worrying about calories… And you keep trying to eat little… If you are hungry, eat more, obviously. Maybe just being careful with carbs will be enough, you don’t know it yet. Even if you don’t get the quick fat-loss you desire, get used to keto, get fat adapted first. You can tweak and try harder, stricter later when you see just keto isn’t enough. If it won’t be enough. But 60lbs is much, you probably will lose fat just fine, maybe not the all 60lbs but a significant amount.

(Robin) #63

You shouldn’t feel hungry on keto… honestly, you can eat more than previously, as long as your carbs stay at 20g. So if you’re hungry keep some sort of meat etc to chow down on. I like to make a bunch of meatballs, well spiced, and keep them in the fridge for when I just need to chomp on something. Or a bag of pork rinds.

#64

Or hard boiled eggs. Or … bacon.

(B Creighton) #65

I believe the science is very jumbled on this issue because what gets included in things like “red meat.” Is your plant based organic? That is a huge factor I believe. Can plant based foods cause cancer? I believe absolutely. Raw kidney beans will kill you quite rapidly - no need to wait for cancer.

LOL. Yeah, I think the scientists are confused as well. Watch Mic the Vegan trade scientific food studies with keto guys is kind of a hoot.

Since you brought up cancer, I thought I would tell you the nitrites in most bacon become nitrosomines in the body which are known carcinogens. I eat bacon, but now only buy uncured bacon without the nitrites. I think things like this are the connection between “red meat” and cancer. It seems those “studies” always include processed meats. Personally, I stay away from them. I doubt very seriously fresh, grass-fed red meats cause cancer… of course how they are cooked I believe is important too.

Eggs. You want to eat eggs freshly cooked. I believe powdered eggs and eggs in processed foods like mayonnaise are more of a problem due to oxidized cholesterol. Eat freshly cooked preferably pastured eggs.

When not doing keto, I eat PB almost every day in a PB, banana, raisin sandwich. That’s pretty much a nono on keto. Try to get more protein. When I was doing keto, I actually found it somewhat difficult to eat my protein goal. You have to eat a lot. You really cannot do it on plant foods, unless you cheat with lots of plant based protein powder. On keto my mornings are whole milk yogurt with some fruit and a 3 egg omellette maybe with some cabbage in it - usually cheddar cheese on top. That had no problem holding me till dinner. Although PB is actually a somewhat decent protein source, without more protein, it is not going to satiate you through dinner time. It is too carby for that.

#66

Did you have some special vegetarian keto diet or you lack appetite on keto or something? On my ovo-lacto vegetarian keto I was unable to eat adequate protein (I tried in the beginning, reading stupid things about high protein, I know better now), it got always high :frowning: Now I eat meat, 100g protein is a quite small piece… Enough but looks small :slight_smile: And while substantial, red meat is very satiating, it’s easier to eat a ton of protein from chicken. For me, at least.
I am aware we are all different and not everyone can eat nearly as much as I, on keto… I just have a hard time to wrap my head around these things. If one focus on protein sources, it’s easy to get enough protein, even with little fat and volume. That is usually not our goal but if we can’t eat much on some days (and it happens often), at least get our protein. Or a decent part of it.

It’s possible without that (there aren’t many options, true, it may be none for some, we all have our individual tastes and sensitivities), I always get my protein on any woe but I would worry about nutrients (and I never did vegan keto, just plant-based low-carb for 5 days where I didn’t care about nutrients as it was so short). Even normal vegan is tricky at least a bit but keto, oh my. That would be stressful. I have found vegetarian keto (I think it was ovo-lacto all the time but I had times with very little dairy. good, eggs are better) easy enough but it’s way better with enough meat, I don’t need to worry about nutrients, at least it seems so this far. And this is only one benefit :wink:

(B Creighton) #67

I did not do vegan keto… my wife actually kinda tried that, although she eventually incorporated a little chicken. My protein goal was about 120 gr of protein per day. That is actually quite a bit. My yogurt probably had a max of 15 gr of protein, and the three eggs and cheese about 25-30 gr of protein that is not even half of my protein goal. A half pound of some kind of meat is going to average around 45-50 gr of protein. Those two together fall short of a 120 gr protein goal. So I was supplementing with protein powders. I guess I could eat more meat, but I am not carni, and enjoy vegetables and plant foods. Actually, 120 gr was a minimal goal. Most trainers will advise you about 1 gr of protein per pound of body weight to gain muscle, which was about 180 gr of protein for me… I was well short of that. Eating 180 gr of protein/day will keep just about anybody full. That is a lot of food… of any kind. It is equivalent to about 2 pounds of some kind of meat.

#68

I happened to have 120g protein yesterday. It felt I ate little but my calories were a bit high, oh well it happens, my energy need is low and my food is dense, I eat a little and it’s lots of fat. I ate a little meat (59g protein), some eggs (36g, it’s higher lately but I used to eat 8 eggs on average, that’s 48g and when I had so little meat, I often ate 10. it’s very very easy for me to eat a bunch of eggs, even easier to drink them), very little dairy except the milk, I can’t drink little milk but it has little protein (16g), some non-carnivore extras gave the rest.
I needed 2 far away meals for that, my eating abilities really were pathetic yesterday… But it’s fine. If one can’t eat much protein at one sitting, it can be eaten later. Bodybuilders often eat many meals but normal people may need that too. Even I have 5MAD days out of necessity (only close to carnivore), hopefully I will lose that.

One doesn’t need to be carnivore to eat much meat, a bunch of vegs change little for that unless one gets satiated by vegs. I get hungrier.
I was over 130g on vegetarian keto, I had eggs, dairy and oily seeds, mostly. I rarely had gluten but then I easily had 120g protein for my small (as it wasn’t fatty) lunch. But I wouldn’t like to do that longer term.

1g/pound is popular but according to my knowledge and very many people, no one uses that much (except on steroids, that’s another matter entirely).
2g/kg for LBM may be a nice, safe amount that most people don’t fully use but a little extra for safety is fine. 1g/pound is higher especially if it’s for full bodyweight. And 1.5g/kg for LBM isn’t a bad amount to begin with, some advises 1-1.5g/kg (just in general, not for gaining muscle) but building muscle while eating 1g/kg protein is rare as far as I know. Some people does it but it just shows the power of individual differences. 1.5-2g/kg sounds better, even if one doesn’t build muscle but when they do, I wouldn’t go lower without knowing very well what I am doing. (Not like I can go as low as 2g/kg myself, of course.)

180g protein is nice, maybe even much, it depends on the person but it doesn’t make all of us satiated, not even for a single meal. I need not satiating protein (chicken) for that to happen but some people simply need more meat after a steak with this amount of protein. Don’t underestimate people :smiley: Some eat unbelievable amounts and they need it.

And if it’s 180g lean protein, no wonder if one stays hungry and desires fat, I probably would do that if I could eat lean protein. Maybe I could get satiated but I surely would get hungry very soon. We need enough fat too.

But I understand having problems with 180g protein, it’s a lot for most of us, way above my needs for sure!

#69

I can eat 2 pounds of fatty meat a day easily. In one meal. Not if it’s dry meat though, I can maybe eat half a pound of dry meat like chicken breast or pork loin. More likely I’ll eat 1 pound of fatty meat and the rest in eggs and bacon. I guess cheese counts, too.

(Nicci) #70

@ iwannalose60bls,
I see you are intimidated a bit, and also confused about Keto, and especially calories and the counting of calories. This confusion will lead to doubt, and keep you struggling with the subliminal thought that one must always count calories—even if you’re doing it in the background of your head, doing this will ultimately cause you failure on this diet.
Calories are a useless measurement guide, and it has been proved to be so for many, many years.
If you’d like to come into a conversation by two Drs. discussing this very thing, that can help you understand why this is useless, I have provided a link below. It is a wonderful dissertation between Dr. Berry and Dr. Lustig concerning sugar, fructose, and calories.

It is a long conversation, and if you don’t have the time to watch and hear the whole thing, come in at minute 37:00 to hear them discuss calories and their worthlessness. (I DO suggest you listen to the entire video at some point)

Around minute 42:00 Dr. Lustig even says:

“There are about 50 good reasons to kill the calorie. Nonetheless, the calorie continues, but people are getting the picture. People are figuring out what the real story is. Now, The Economist Magazine, in 2018, wrote a blistering critique called “The Death of the Calorie” … and that is exactly what we need to do, we need to drive the silver stake through the heart of the calorie, so that it dies and never comes back”

It may help you get off that old horse you’re beating around, and start fresh with Keto.
I wish the very best of luck to you! :slight_smile:

#killthecalorie

(Chuck) #71

The answer to that question was very simple for me, stop eating anything with sugar, wheat and artificial sweeteners. Meaning for me no highly processed foods, or refined foods, no fast food, and not soft drinks, or fruit juices.

#72

And many of us experienced the opposite all or part of our life… So no one can persuade us. (I am a tad open minded even regarding this and I know not every calorie is the same but that lots of fat and little carbs keep me fat, that’s very much proven at this point.)

(Chuck) #73

I have stopped counting calories and carbs, and I have made better progress at losing weight and fat. The problem with counting calories is that it isn’t an accurate measurement. Not all calories are processed the same by our bodies, just like different nutrients have different values. The key is to get in tune with your own body. Understand how different food reacts when eaten by you. And something else interesting is how different combinations of foods eaten together react within your body.

#74

I am pretty sure calories would be accurate enough for me - if I could track them even remotely accurately. But who knows if my meat has 1000 or 1600 kcal? Not me. Sometimes I can make an educated guess (of course I weight everything in a kitchen scale but if I don’t know if its macros, it doesn’t help so much), other times I am lost.

But even that is fine as long as I figure out how to eat to get the best result :wink: (It’s not just fat-loss, it’s everything.) Tracking helped a bit but there is way more to that. And I never enforced macros just studied how my body and possibly mind reacted to various styles of eating. I learned a lot.
I know what food my body likes, what satiates me, what I can actually do long term… I needed a lot of time to get ready for the method which I believe will help me but I am nothing if not patient and I hope most people have a way easier time.

#75

For what purpose if not measuring your macros?

Curious, what did you learn? Is the food your body likes congruent with what satiates you, and can you do it long-term?

#76

I neither count nor weigh anything. I have a carb list on my fridge that shows lower carb foods and exactly how many carbs they have. (It shows calorie and protein also, I have never bothered with those). I barely look at that chart anymore, after years of Keto I know what I am eating. I’m not always at 20 carbs - some days I eat none, some days I may eat 40 or even 60. I would have never lost all the weight if I had had to keep track of everything. I hate book keeping and all that. I never use recipes, I read them to get an idea and then cook what I’ve got. It’s just my personality, and it hasn’t hampered my progress in any way.

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #77

I don’t either. I’ve lost loads of weight on high Calories. After a few mistakes I’ve got a new way of dealing with carbs.
I start cooking with Carnivore in mind, then add carbs to make it tasty. Things like garlic or herbs some cream etc.

#78

That’s what I do also.

#79

I do it for measuring my macros. And knowing how much grams of meat I eat, that is information too. I can’t get accurate macros though due to the very unknown fattiness of my meat. But it’s usually good enough.

There is connection but not much. My body likes very low plant net carb food best but very few items satiate me well.
Doing it long term has more ties with my taste and temptation. I can’t do a woe without fruit long term despite my body dislikes sugar, it makes me hungrier (either matters in tiny amounts though) and I don’t need it at all. But no way I give it up so I won’t. It is a good example of not having any problems, these 3 are fine together despite pointing into different direction. As I often say, amounts matter A LOT.
This last one changes with training. I don’t need it for fruit but I do need it for items where what is good for me and what I fancy is in serious conflict. Though sometimes frequency solves it. If I eat it rarely, all is well.

(Nicci) #80

Expounding on my earlier post, I found one from Dr. Lustig that is much more to the point (concerning the counting of calories)