I am looking for a list of VFA fiber

(Todd Chester) #1

Hi All,

Before my question , just a bit of trivia: “vittles” is American slang for “victuals” or “human food served at a table”.

Background: ever wonder why cows are not diabetic eating all that grass? It is because the bacteria in their guts (microbiome) turns the cellulose in the grass into Volatile Fatty Acids (VFA’s): acetic acid, propionic acid, buteric acid. So the cows are actually consuming fat as a by product of their gut bacteria.

Now for humans. Some fiber (polysaccharide) are turned into blood sugar by your microbiome (and not subject to blood sugar spiking because it is a slow process). Other fibers are converted into VFA’s by our microbiome.

I am looking for a list of vittles with these VFA producing fibers not chemically linked with carbohydrates.

So far I have found:
Shiratak (Konjac) noodles
Heart of Palm

Do any of you guys know of a comprehensive list of VFA fibers that are not chemically linked with carbohydrates?

I am after vittles that do not raise my blood sugar. (Before anyone says “meat”, keep in mind that over 60% of the protein in meat is converted into blood glucose by your liver, albeit slowly. I am after a ZERO rise in blood sugar.)

Many thanks,
-T

#2

You’re after the impossible, there’s always some response even if indirectly, there’s always insulin because you can’t absorb nutrients without it. What’s the actual goal here?

(Todd Chester) #3

The goal is the smallest rise in blood sugar. I am after sources of fiber that my microbiome will convert to Volatile Fatty Acids.

I do believe I remember trying Shiratak (Konjac) noodles before. They were like eating plastic. And they would not absorb butter or sauces.

Trader Joe’s sells Heart of Palm spaghetti noodles. I have to look at the particulars still.
https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/hearts-of-palm-pasta-067844

#4

Your A1C or LP-IR that bad that you have to bring it to that level? Your rise in BG is far less important than how quick you return to baseline.

(Todd Chester) #5

A1C is plus minus 50% accurate.

I am after a list of fiber that converts to Volatile Fatty Acids.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

There are two issues here (as I see it, anyway): (1) no matter what you eat, the yield would still depend on (2) which species of bacteria are inhabiting your intestines. And since human beings are not designed, as ruminants are, to make use of the products of bacterial digestion, I don’t know how you’d even go about controlling which bacterial species did the digesting. Also, is there any guarantee that if you can get your intestinal bacteria to produce any volatile fatty acids, you would be able to absorb them?

The point that is confusing me, however, is what you mean by “fibre.” I don’t think there can be fibre from non-plant sources, since by definition the word denotes “indigestible carbohydrate.” For instance, cellulose is fibre to human beings, because we lack the enzyme cellullase to break it down into its constituent glucose molecules. What constitutes “fibre” for other mammals will be slightly different, depending on which species can produce which enzymes.

I also believe that your figure that 60% of dietary protein gets consumed by gluconeogenesis might be rather high. There are three types of amino acids, one type being more easily converted into a fatty acid, another type being more easily converted into glucose, and a third type that can be converted into either. And of course this can only happen after the amino acid in question has been deaminated. The body’s need for nitrogen is independent of the need for gluconeogenesis, so it would seem just as likely that some of the lipogenic amino acids would get deaminated for their nitrogen, and the resulting fat stored temporarily (assuming the person is on a ketogenic diet) or permanently (if insulin is elevated from a high-carb diet).

#7

Not sure on the 50% thing, A1Cs aren’t perfect, but they’re more than accurate enough to tell you if you have a BG issue or not. As far as we know now LP-IR is supposed to be very good.

(Todd Chester) #8

HI Paul,

Glucose from meat can be found in what is called the “Insulin Index”"

Scroll down to table 4. You will note that they are measuring glucose in your blood stream not your liver. And eggs win the contest!

The fiber in Konjac noodles in Glucomannan fiber. I have not figured out what the fiber in heart of palm is yet. Konjac noodles are like eating plastic. But they do not pass out of me as indigestible, so my microbiome is doing something to them.

I am after plant sources that do not increase my blood sugar. I will leave that to meat.

(Todd Chester) #9

I do not know about the “LP-IR”, but the A1c gets its chops busted a lot:

https://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/#!/5752/presentation/18400

Our results indicated that the prevalence of DM and NGT defined solely by A1c is highly unreliable with a significant tendency for underestimation of the prevalence of DM and overestimation of NGT. Furthermore, race and ethnicity had a significant impact of the sensitivity of A1c criteria. Thus, A1c should not be solely used in determination of prevalence of states of glucose tolerance.

And the purpose of my question in not LP-IR or A1c. My purpose is to lower the glucose response of what I eat. I eat a lot of meat, which does show up on the “Insulin Index”. Carbs are not the only source of glucose.

#10

For Doc’s that don’t live in the past, the LP-IR has become the standard for determining Insulin resistance. What you said is true, but the level of it from meat is ignorable, to me, just goes back to the BS fears of GNG people used to have. Clearly do what you want, but your body’s response and the time back to baseline are way more important than a transient rise from a meal.

(Todd Chester) #11

What is GNG?

I am not ignoring any source of Blood Glucose. Did you see the chart in chapter 4?

Found this description of LP-IR:


Not sure about its fascination with cholesterol though.

Hyperinsulinemia is a good indication of insulin resistance.


Not sure how you test for it though. Hyperinsulinemia also tells you that your pancreas is capable of producing insulin.

[quote]Clearly do what you want, but your body’s response and the time back to baseline are way more important than a transient rise from a meal.
[/quote]

Broke my two hour fast before bedtime two days ago. My Blood Glucose (BG) is the same when I go to sleep as when I awake. Got a 138 mg/dL reading in the morning, which scared me. Two hours after eating (roast beef, avocado), it was back down to 101 mg/dL. So I am returning, just not to the 80 to 90 range I want to be in.

This is why I am looking for more sources of food that DO NOT raise my blood glucose. And why I am looking for more foods that do not produce glucose. I am definitely not going to stop eating meat.

#12

Gluconeogenisis, the former biggest fear (wrongfully) of keto’rs of their protein intake becoming glucose and raising their blood sugar. It’s why so many wrongfully kept protein low.

(Todd Chester) #13

I have no intention of keeping my protein low or eating less meat. I am just looking for more things to eat that do not raise my blood glucose. The glucose generated from protein is slow release, which is perfect for me.

Don’t you love it when Keto gets called a “Fad Diet”. Let me see, Keto was what humans ate for the last 2 million year and the SAD (Standard American Diet) is a flash in the eye of human history. Hmmm, I would posit the SAD is the “fad” diet.

(Todd Chester) #14

Okay, I tested Trader Joe’s Heart of Palm:
https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/hearts-of-palm-pasta-067844
I ate the whole bag. (The dears think there is three serving inside. Ha. Me thinks that they are taking advantage of the loop hole in the labeling laws allowing them to round 3.9999 grams of carbs down to 3).

Here goes:

2 day fast start: 119 mg./dL (I ate too late. Typically I am around 105)
start of second day: 91

end of fast (day 3) and consumption of entire packing of Heart of Palm (butter, salt and garlic powder added): 94 (This is expected to go up to around 105 when not fasting.)

30 minutes after consumption: 105
60 minutes: 110
90 minutes: 104
120 minutes: 105

So no spike. Yippee!