I am at a loss as to what to do

(From XL > Medium) #1

After a very successful period of fasting about 2 years ago, when I lost a lot of weight over about 6 weeks, I have found it very hard to fast again.
I fasted over various periods during that time (and ate a few days in between fasts), the most of which was 18 days.

My fasting success 2 years ago was quite effortless, without hunger pangs, or thoughts about food. I’d watch various food ads on TV without it bothering me (even fast food) and I was quite pleased with what I had accomplished (I did document my success on this site at the time). Seeing those ads in the past would encourage me to go out and get something. Not anymore.

But during 2018 and 2019, when I tried to fast again, I found it really hard to do and thoughts about food usually beat me before I have ended the 2nd day. In addition, I have fallen off the wagon and gone back to eating almost everything, including meat, cheese, candy, bread, fast food and more. I didn’t seem to put on any weight during my 2 years of almost continuous eating and 2 years on, I am still close to the weight I was 2 years go. I am pleased with that, but I need to lose another 25-30 pounds and its proven to be really hard to do.
I have just ended a fast of 5 days last Saturday (Dec 14), where I lost 10lbs and I have eaten each day since. I am going to start another fast tomorrow.

One of the key motivations for my wanting to lose weight was to reverse my T2 diabetes, which I still have but I am without any medicine (no insurance, not qualify for free meds). I am sure my blood sugars are almost always high as I did monitor them daily for years and got to know my body. I only check them periodically now, around every 2-3 months and they are in the mid-high 200s.

I don’t know what to do to lose the additional weight, which I believe I need to get to in order for my diabetes to end. I am 5’7" (1m70) and currently weigh about 190lbs (86kg) (I was 248lbs in Aug 2017). The lowest weight I achieved was 173lbs in early 2018.

Can anyone suggest a course of action that might help me with fasting, so I can get to or get close to losing the 25-30lbs?

(Polly) #2

Sorry to hear that you are struggling at the moment @magsilon. Congratulations on your loss of weight and on maintaining that loss. You will find that fasting is easier to do if you are fat adapted. I suggest that you cut out all of the takeaway foods, candy and bread which have crept in to your diet. Eat only meat, fish, eggs and leafy greens [and natural live yogourt, cheese and cream if they suit you]. Make sure you stay low carb and in five or six weeks time you will be fat adapted [most likely] and fasting will become a doddle again!

(From XL > Medium) #3

Thanks for replying.
I had decided to stop eating animals foods and managed to keep that going until May/June 2019. The meat/cheese/fast food splurge have all happened this year and I think emotional/psychological factors were responsible or at least contributory.
I mostly eat various veggies, especially leafy greens, beans, nuts, seeds. But because I hate cooking, eating plain greens (even with herbs & spices) has become a chore, something that I know is good for me, but tastes tiresome and un-flavorful. I mostly steam my greens or I briefly stir fry some of them (such as dandelion greens/chard), with onions/garlic/red peppers, using veggie broth.

I also have trouble knowing what veggie sources of fat are available.
Any suggestions?

(Susan) #4

Olive oil, avocado oil and coconut oils are fruits. They are very good fats.

(From XL > Medium) #5

I don’t eat oils anymore, or cook with them. Its not good for the body to eat extracted oils, so I stopped using/eating them a couple of years ago.
I do eat olives and avocado.

(Bob M) #6

That’s tough. There are plenty of good recipes out there, but you have to cook. (Not necessarily like it, but do it.) Costco does have quite a few keto meats that just require reheating, if you have access to a Costco.

(Susan) #7

sounds like they don’t want to eat meat.

(From XL > Medium) #8

I did mention that I have stopped eating meat/animal sources of food.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

A vegetarian diet can be ketogenic, especially if one is willing to eat fish and eggs, but it is much more difficult on a vegan diet. Since the human race evolved eating mostly meat and very little in the way of plant foods (archaeologists find that the point at which a society switches from being primarily hunters to being primarily farmers is accompanied by a distinct decline in health), eating a mostly plant-based diet is difficult and takes a lot of forethought. You will probably also need to make use of vitamin and mineral supplements, especially for those vitamins (such as the B-complex) that are mostly available in meat.

You need a decent amount of protein, plus saturated and monounsaturated fats. This means that avocadoes are your friend. While certain polyunsaturated fats are essential to the human diet, we need very little of them, and they can be inflammatory in large quantities. Given that plant foods by definition contain large amounts of carbohydrate, eating ketogenically on a plant-based diet is tricky, but not impossible.

(Bob M) #10

Then I have no advice. I personally can’t imagine eating keto with no animal sources of food. I know people have done this, but it’s way too limiting to me.

(Susan) #11

I am at a loss as to what to say.

(From XL > Medium) #12

I don’t think what you say is true or supported by evidence.
It seems that our digestive tract and teeth structure are for plant-based foods. In addition, animal foods damage our endothelial cells and this contributes to ill-health and aging, among other consequences of consuming animal sources of food. I think it is probably OK to eat animal sources of food, once in a very long while, such as when our ancestors who lived 100,000 years ago found a dead/injured animal, but not how modern humans eat animal foods. Our biology has changed very little since that time (or perhaps not at all).

Protein does not come from animals, as many people believe. It comes from what animals eat. Animals are simply the middlemen. Even B12 does not come from animals, but from the bacteria that surround the grasses that some animals eat. I think my B vitamin intake is more than adequate.

(Jane Srygley) #13

I agree with the advice to get fat adapted. There is a really good vegan keto group on Facebook that will be able to give you a lot of ideas. I don’t think you can get adequate protein from plants and stay keto unless you are willing to eat processed pea or soy protein. Tempeh has a lot of protein and doesn’t need to be cooked.

I would much prefer from an ethical and love-for-animals standpoint to be vegan. I was a vegetarian for years. I have come to believe that humans really need animal protein for optimal health, so I try to source my animal protein as ethically and humanely as possible. You might also consider getting an Instant Pot as it makes hard boiling eggs (if you’re cool with eggs) a total breeze! There are a zillion things you can cook with that and you don’t have to stand over a hot stove. Good luck!

(From XL > Medium) #14

Unfortunately I don’t use face book. All protein originates from plants.

(Jane Srygley) #15

There are websites, too! Here’s a good one: https://meatfreeketo.com/

That’s all I’ve got for you, hon. Good luck!

(From XL > Medium) #16

Thanks for posting that site.

(From XL > Medium) #17

My post was about fasting, not eating keto.

#18

@magsilon
I think you can do keto as a vegetarian. What I dont get is how you do keto without variety and choices. I could never do a diet where I only eat steamed or raw vegetables and nothing else. The reason I am doing keto is because of the variety I can eat so it doesnt get boring. I am not fasting and have lost 2 pounds in the first 14 days. I repeat: without fasting. One should be able to lose the weight without fasting as well. Or with intermittent fasting which is for some hours during the day. I think you are martyring yourself in this quest to lose the weight. Instead of focusing on a weight goal, how about just living keto with variety and choices? For example you can make a vegetarian curry that is very tasty. To say you dont want to cook is a great fallacy here I think- because you do have to put some energy into it. I dont do sports but for that, I figured I have to exert myself on another plane, and that is in the kitchen. I think the way you have been doing keto is what will make you fall back into sweets and fast food and all the rest, because nobody can eat steamed veg every day. I dont think fasting - or eating nothing- is a good alternative either. I am no expert and haven’t been at this for long, and its great how much weight you have lost, but this is a way of BEING. Its not a spurt of energy and then “back to my old ways.” Thats the only thing I can think of to answer you.What you are doing sounds like it won’t work in the long run- and isnt this your problem? Anybody can lose weight if they dont eat anything at all, but thats just not sustainable.

(Katie) #19

I am sorry that you are having a tough time. I am not a professional, but my suggestion is as follows:

  • Start with just getting into a routine of a sustainable, healthy, whole foods ketogenic diet
  • Keep the carbohydrates low, lower than 20g total if you can
  • Eat when you are hungry, stop when you are full, do not put pressure on yourself
  • As you are more into a routine, try to delay starting your first meal, and/or eat your last meal earlier
  • As you feel comfortable, stretch your intermittent fasting, making it longer and longer
  • Then try your extended fasts

I think that the more pressure you put onto yourself to fast, the more difficult it is to do. People have cured/reversed their T2 diabetes without fasting and just doing keto.

You have done it before, you can do it again! You have this wonderful forum of people who want to support you, keep us updated :purple_heart:

(Windmill Tilter) #20

I don’t think the ketogenic diet is a very good fit for you, but that has nothing to do with fasting.

Get a vegetarian book on reversing diabetes. They exist. Dr. Fuhrman’s “Eat to Live” diet (vegan) would probably get the job done if you ignore his fat intake recommendations. You’ll want as much fat as you can afford given your restrictions. I followed it for a few months and I experimented with multi-day fasting at the same time. It’s totally doable.

Forget about multi-week fasts. They are not necessary, and they’re not particularly sustainable as a long term strategy (as you already know). If you do alternate day fasting for a few months it will get you the same result. It’s a marathon not a sprint. The diabetes will improve, and the pounds will fall off like clockwork.

Read Dr. Fung’s “The Diabetes Code” too. You can’t follow the recipes obviously, but it will give you a good understanding of how to reverse diabetes. Not eating animal proteins, fats, or vegetable oils will make your task unnecessarily difficult, but alternate day fasting is so easy and effective that you will succeed if you stick with it for a few months.

Good luck!