Human growth Hormones while fasting = big muscles?

(Straight outta ‘Straya’) #1

Day 5 of a 7 day (though I’ll reevaluate at 7) and I’m doing intense exercise every other day with a day to recover since day 1.

While Autophagy is my main goal and fat loss a solid 2nd, what muscle gains can I expect if any?

(Tom Seest) #3

I’m not sure there is enough HGH circulating to have massive gains during fasts, but I don’t think we’ll ever know unless people like you do their own N=1. I’m not a lifter, but I am aware of the topic.

I did a before and after DEXA where I did a DEXA three days before I started fasting for 11 days. (14 day interval). I gained 1.6 KG of LBM during that time. Most of the lifters speculated that it had to be water or other tissue, which I see as doubtful as I took the DEXA’s at the same time in the morning after basically dry fasting over night. I also lost 5.8 KG of body fat during that same 14 day period according to the DEXA.

So, if you really want to know, do before and after DEXA scans and actually measure it.

(Mark Rhodes) #4

I believe my n=1 worked really well.

dexa
dexa.jpg1488×1488 444 KB

I have shared this in the past. During this time my I was 5 -6 day fasting every third week. I would lift 3 consecutive days for about 90 minutes with large, heavy, compound movements. Those 3 days would be days 4 thru 6 and I would break a fast with HWC, BCAA, EAA, Glutamine and Carnitine. My results really shocked me. The folks on Optimising Nutrition FB page accused me of juicing. I used the supplement to end the fast to use insulin spike to jam those nutrients into the areas most in need, trusting my body to do what it needed to do. Was I right? Beats me but I am still doing this until it stops working.

My February results were not as impressive. I lost no fat but still gained another 3 LBM lbs. Now I know much of this is water and glycogen BUT it still is counted as LBM thus driving down my BF to 15.7%. I go again in May. It seems my schedule has taken some of the low belly fat away and perhaps some of the saddle bags on my low back.

Here’s the thing: Even if the HGH is not the mechanism this pattern provided the results I was looking for.

One other thing. I became interested in GKI. I backplotted my GKI and created a daily average. During this fat loss / muscle gain period my GKI was below 5. During Christmas even though my BHB never dropped below .4 but two times my GKI was as high as 54! Averaging 15 for 3 weeks straight! I took this info AFTER my February reading and have worked to drive my GKI to stay below 5 for three weeks straight now and likely until my May scan. I am doing this through EF, IF and timed eating. WAAAAAY too much work for most of us, lol but I am an mechanical engineer and just love this kinda shit.

Hope this helps.
@tdseest would love your take on this.

(Straight outta ‘Straya’) #5

This has been very helpful. I’ll come back to this when I have shed a bit more and move away from HIIT swimming and body weight exercises and move towards building rather than leaning down/hacking fat off my frame.

(Erin Macfarland ) #6

Wow @marklifestyle I love reading all of this, it’s fascinating and I appreciate all the tracking and work you put into this. I’m finishing up my personal trainer certification so obviously fitness and the anabolic/catabolic process is something that interests me. One thing i have been speculating about lately is how exercise, both anaerobic and cardiovascular, affects the process of autophagy, gluconeogenisis, and increases in LBM. More specifically, I am curious about how autophagy contributes to the formation of LBM in a relatively lean person doing keto who is also very active. Obviously the demand for protein is higher in this type of person, but if they are engaging in strength training and have lower energy stores (body fat), to what extent does their body engage in autophagy to support the building of lean muscle tissue, and if they are eating adequate amounts of protein do they experience increased levels of gluconeogenisis since it’s supposed to be demand driven? And if that is the case, are they essentially using glucose as a fuel source more so than FFA’s or ketones, even if the glucose is being created endogenously from amino acids and glycerol created from stored fats? Am I making any sense here? Lol

(Mark Rhodes) #7

@Emacfarland To aid you further ( if it loads correctly):
cal 3 month.pdf (16.3 KB)
for 2 kd.pdf (44.9 KB)

You can see my weight can swing 17 lbs in any given fast/ feast. I drink lots of black coffee when fasting and at least 60 oz of water plus a mineral water of my own concoction. I normally IF 18/6 and occasionally will add HWC in morning coffee.

I am 54. 6’ 1". I have multiple spinal issues and was supposed to be on permanent disability. Instead I designed my own rehab program as I too studied exercise physiology in the nineties and then applied mechanical engineering principles to my rehab. PLUS the nutrition. MRI scan next week to see how well I have done the last 3 years ( yes, I will let everyone know).

I am active on the factory floor from intense labor to not so intense depending on what needs to be done. I hobby farm. The wife and I hike our dogs 2X a week in Wisconsin’s Kettle Moraine Southern Unit up to 4 miles each ( the dogs are getting old). I lift 3 x a week. And in season either cross country ski or kayak. I recreationally bike ride. Plus a yoga class and a shitty ass approach to a home yoga practice.

(Tom Seest) #8

I’m not surprised by your results as I had suspicion that this is a case. I’m not a lifter like you or @Brenda so it’s outside my area of expertise.

I’m also not surprised by how you were treated in that specific FB group. When things happen, that don’t meet with the general consensus of their group, they have a tendency to react that way. If they can’t or don’t understand or embrace an idea, they dismiss the results as cheating, etc. I check in there from time to time, but only to observe the character of the individuals, and not the concepts they embrace. Occasionally, I’ll even learn a few things there.

But, you probably didn’t want my insights on that FB group.

(Mark Rhodes) #9

HAHAHA. No but that sure did help. I am a stalker there now. Check in, read something interesting then go elsewhere to learn.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #10

I do. Lol

#11

Correct me if I wrong,the HGH is not going to cause increased gains becose its countered by catabolic hormones during the fast.

The HGH rise is to protect muscles from atrophy,so only tissue that is being converted to energy is fat.