How much veg do you eat a day?

(Martin Liversage) #15

Why do you need fibers?

One reason is health. Supposedly, eating a lot of fibers has health benefits including reducing the risk of colon cancer. However, the book Fiber Menace (which I haven’t read) explains that much of this research is not really well established after all and that too much fiber may have adverse health effects.

Another reason is to improve your digestion to avoid constipation or the opposite. However, after getting rid of most carbohydrates I feel no need to add extra fibers. My digestion is as good as it can get - much better than before starting keto.

Because the science seems unclear and perhaps misguided I’ve decided to let my body guide me and my body says that everything is OK.

(Sascha Heid) #16

None :slight_smile:

(I want abs... olutely all the bacon) #17

No plant based food Dec 26-Jan 28, limited plant based (e.g., garlic seasoning, a bit of spinach, caulimash) Jan 29-Feb, and no plants all of March :grinning::blush::sunglasses:. Everything running smoothly, nutrients are good, feeling great!

(Todd Allen) #18

It varies day to day but as a recovering vegetarian/vegan it’s often a lot. Yesterday I had a single meal which I started preparing at 2 pm and finished eating by 5 pm. It was topped with some animal foods, 3 poached eggs, 2 oz salmon, and 2 oz parmesan cheese but everything else was veg/fruit: spinach, kale, romaine, mushrooms, onions, tomato, peppers with additional fat and protein from avocado, sunflower seeds, hemp hearts, sprouted broccoli seed, cashews, mustard and olive oil. According to cron-o-meter I had roughly 90 grams each of carb and protein and 100 grams of fat, but only 33 net carbs.

Due to the high cost of the blood ketone test strips I haven’t been monitoring it lately, but in the past when eating similarly I would typically be around 1 mmol ketones the following morning. What I like about eating this way is I find it very satisfying. I can eat a tremendous amount of food by volume and be absolutely stuffed while keeping the total calories low enough that I am still losing weight. While it is a lot of carbs by keto standards I’m more concerned about the effect on my blood gucose than maximizing ketones and these low density carb sources mixed with fat and protein don’t spike my BG badly and for most of the hours of the day my BG is near my fasting level of 100 (still too high but slowly getting better).

(eat more) #19

i gave this some more thought…
where is your fiber target coming from?
i believe SAD recommends a minimum of 25g/day but i’ve never seen any mention of a minimum regarding keto (granted i haven’t read everything on the planet)

as stated by others…some folks have zero and fiber can actually be disruptive

i don’t believe pills and powders are necessary and are kind of a throwback to the 80’s-present low calorie, low fat, high volume eating recommendations.

have you done your keto calculations?

(they’ve prefilled the fields so just change them to yours :slight_smile: )

it simplifies things for your primary focus to be on the 3 macros…
one of my favorite things i’ve read on this forum:
protein is a goal
carb is the limit
fat is the lever

#20

About 1…something along the lines of 3 stems of broccolini with a steak or such. Think I have it more out of habit and plating aesthetics than necessity to be honest.

#21

I’m like you as a prior vegetarian. I certainly feel the same way you do with veg, I can eat a gigantic amount and be so satisfied without the calories!..So far I’m averaging about 30-40 net carbs a day with my veg intake but still in ketosis and losing. If my weight-loss slows I will reduce the veg but as of now I cannot live without a large amount…I mean I could, but why :smiley: I crave them constantly even though my intake of fat is high. Eating fresh and ripe veggies, such as caprese salad I could not do without!!! Fruit I’m alright without but fresh herbs and veggies are my heart…With Keto it is fun because they taste so good with fat :stuck_out_tongue:

(Larry Lustig) #22

The amount of vegetables (by which I think you mean plant-based food, since quite a few fruits seem to be included) is completely and totally irrelevant in a ketogenic diet. What’s relevant is the amount of carbohydrate in the plants you eat. Carrots are very, very different from cabbage in their effect on ketogenesis.

Also, “serving” is a pretty fungible term. I don’t know if there’s any official definition of what a “serving” of each food item is and, if so, whether you’re following them.

A quick google indicates that someone, somewhere, thinks a serving of broccoli (a relatively low-carb vegetable) is one cup. That’s unlikely to be universally accepted definition because most of the world doesn’t measure in cups, but let’s go with it. One cup of broccoli is about 4 net grams of carbohydrates. Six to ten servings would be 24 to 40 grams net. That’s beginning to push the outer limits of what most people would consider a ketogenic diet. If you’re eating other foods with carbohydrates (which it sounds like you are), or you’re eating other fruits and vegetables with a higher percentage of carbohydrates in them, you’re probably eating outside the range of what most people would consider to be ketogenic.

The only way to actually know is to test for ketones. But if have been pursuing your new diet for several months, and are not seeing any results then you might want to seriously consider eliminating a lot of the carbohydrate foods you’re still eating – and those would largely be the fruits and vegetables.

(Arlene) #23

Fiber is not necessary, even detrimental to many people’s digestive systems. Best to find out what works best for you by doing some experiments for yourself.

(John) #24

I don’t count avocado as a vegetable because it is a fruit. The only fruit I eat.

I might get a serving a week at most, but on an average day I eat none whatsoever, nor have I for about 6 months.

(Todd Allen) #25

When consuming a caloric deficit to lose weight every additional calorie not eaten is essentially replaced by a calorie of endogenous fat. If one were to consume no fat, no protein, and 50 grams of carbs - the worst possible macro ratio, one would still be in ketosis if they weren’t exceeding their carb tolerance/budget.

I think some make the mistake of focusing on the consumed macro ratios and eat more fat to compensate for eating more protein and especially for eating more carbs. But it doesn’t work that way. Each additional gram of fat eaten is merely preventing an additional gram of endogenous fat from being burned.

Carbs are a problem when they raise insulin blocking fat burning. Even worse when this leads to the blood sugar roller coaster which increases appetite. Slow digesting carbs such as those in leafy greens are very unlikely to cause those effects unless one has a very deranged metabolism. And their bulk can help with satiety with significantly less total protein and fat making a net win for weight loss.

Clearly fruit such as tomatoes have an unfavorable keto profile with too high a ratio of carbs, especially sugar and are a bad choice if one is trying to maximize weight loss or ketosis. I only eat our home grown tomatoes which probably have no better a macro profile then commercial tomatoes but they have an amazingly better taste and a small amount greatly increases my enjoyment and satisfaction. It’s often been said “The best diet is the one you can keep.”

(Larry Lustig) #26

I’m afraid you won’t find a great deal of support for this idea (a simple restatement of the Calories In Calories Out philosophy) around here, or in the ketogenic community in general. The body has a variety of options when confronted with fewer or more calories than it received the day before, burning or storing exogenous fat is only one of them. (And this is coming from someone more inclined toward CICO than most people here).

(Adam Kirby) #27

Maybe a serving or two a day. We usually have a vegetable with dinner, or a salad. Overall I don’t eat all that much though.

(Jane Reed) #28

Typically I’ll eat 50 grams of spinach or kale, 60 grams of onion, 30 grams of mushrooms (that’s weight grams not carb grams). I may add a few olives, a spoonful of homemade sauerkraut, a small pickle

(eat more) #29

this freaks me out…
i think you meant compensating for eating less carbs?
the way it reads (to me) is that you’re advocating low fat. i know i zeroed in on the “preventing…” statement and i hope others don’t and think eating fat will prevent them from losing body fat.
i think you meant additional gram over satiety or set targets?
with CICO and IIFYM hitting macro targets whether you’re hungry or not is a thing but i’ve never seen that in regards to “standard” keto…as in not for gaining muscle mass…bodybuilders are a diff story lol

(Todd Allen) #30

Mikki, perhaps I said it in an awkward fashion but I was trying to communicate the ideas put forth by Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek in their books which is that one should be eating carbs below their tolerance threshhold which minimizes blood glucose excursions and insulin response. One should eat protein to meet their needs for amino acids. Beyond that additional protein becomes anti-ketogenic as a significant fraction will be converted to glucose and further reduce ones carb tolerance/budget. Fat is the primary swing factor to meet ones total calorie goal. If one wants to maintain weight they will need to eat a high fat diet as you just can’t eat very much carb or protein and stay keto. And to lose weight you cut back on fat from that which you would eat for maintenance. Carbs and protein are fairly restricted at maintenance without much room for further restriction for weight loss and thus adjusting fat consumption is the primary tool for adjusting total calories.

Which is to say that there is no magic ratio of macros which is keto. There is a limit for carbs and protein which varies from person to person modulated somewhat by physical activity. Being below that limit for carbs and protein is the main factor in being keto.

(eat more) #31

freak out averted :blush:
thanks for clarifying

(Todd Allen) #32

I’ve never heard anyone argue CICO is wrong. And there is nothing magic about keto that sets us free from the tyranny of CICO.

The problem with CICO is it is so overly simplistic that it is essentially meaningless with respect to individuals concerned about their weight.

(Crow T. Robot) #33

I’m not going to argue with you, because I think a source of arguments about this is simple semantics, but I think you’ll find that in this forum, we believe that primarily hormones are responsible for weight gain/loss.

(Larry Lustig) #34

Search this very forum for CICO. You can start with:

and