How much of low carb/keto benefit is due to eating higher protein?

(Bob M) #1

Yet one more study indicating the beneficial effects of higher protein:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07315724.2016.1274691

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Anorexigenic = loss of appetite; orexigenic = the opposite.

And gluconeogensis = good, as is mTOR apparently.

As always, the full paper is behind a paywall.

But I often wonder how much of low carb/keto is driven by higher protein, as compared to lower carb? I realize we’re supposed to eat 70+ % fat, but even if you do that, could you increase your protein relative to what you ate before going keto? And for those of us like me that decreased their fat and increased protein while keto and found a benefit, why do we still have arbitrary rules like 70 % fat?

(Edith) #2

I’m going to continue with the musings:

In general, I believe that keto is driven mostly by the amount of carbs we get, not the amount of protein but with the caveat that we do have an upper limit on how much protein we can consume. Once we hit that limit, the rest of our caloric needs have to come from fat.

There is another caveat, though. This may only pertain to those who don’t need it medicinally. Therapeutic keto requires a much lower percentage of protein. I know that Paleomedicina only wants their clients to eat about 500-600 grams of meat a day. People who eat carnivore are not necessarily in ketosis all the time. Too much protein? Finally, not everyone has the same metabolism (as we all know). Some people can eat more carbs and still be in ketosis and some need to eat less. The 70% is considered a good starting place for all and then we tweak from there as individuals. So, not necessarily arbitrary?

In my early days when I measured my ketones, I found that if I really wanted to get good ketone readings which for me was only around 1.0 mmol/L, I did have to keep my protein quantity on the lower end. That was about 50-60 grams a day, but that did not give me good satiety. When I upped my protein, my ketones dropped to 0.2-0.5 mmol/L but my meals hung in longer. My anecdote is that higher protein meant lower ketones.

#3

I never had such rules. 70% fat is virtually inevitably overeating to me… (But practically totally is, I never do things perfect enough to avoid overeating with that high fat percentage.)
It’s all about the relation between our energy need (or target or how should I say it) and protein need I suppose. There is our taste too. It’s fine to have 50% or 95% fat if that suits the one in question.
I used to have 65% and it took a lot of time to lower it but without that I hardly lose fat (maybe on OMAD but I can’t stick to that).

Anorexogetic is great for me - except when it works too well and results in overeating (my 5MAD days with tiny meals).
I try to minimize my protein to avoid wasteful, unnecessary protein eating (and overeating).

Why we have those numbers? Because people like fixed numbers even if they don’t work for them at all. IDK why, I am not like them. I like to find my own ways. And I couldn’t care less about my fat percentage as long as I reach my goals.
And 70% is fine for many, I suppose. But not for all and it’s not a magical number, it doesn’t really matter. We need enough energy, nutrition, protein…

Of course but I try to do my best not to… I ate quite much protein even then.
Increasing protein and fat are way too easy for me and satiation doesn’t come into the way often. (And if it did, I could just add more meals.)

Perfect amount. As long as they don’t take away my other protein sources…

I ate more on my experimental low-carb plant-based days before I discovered gluten… And that was the lowest, by far… It was too carby but one needs to eat something and I wouldn’t like to eat mostly fat.

I have no idea about ketones but I don’t care anyway. My body is elated if I eat very low plant carbs and it refuses to cooperate below 130g protein. And I eat as lean as I comfortably can already, way leaner than I could years ago.

I just can’t wrap my head around low protein (like 60g. it’s a really small piece of meat), it’s just impossible for some of us.