How long has the anti-meat crusade been going on?


(Bob M) #1

Listening to Christmas music. Listening to “1940’s Christmas”, with this song: Frank Sinatra - Button Up Your Overcoat.

Part of the lyrics:

Be careful crossing streets, ooh-ooh,
Cut out sweets, ooh-ooh,
Lay off meat, ooh-ooh,
You’ll get a pain and ruin your tum-tum!

Ah, what? Has the anti-meat crusade really been going since the 40s?

https://www.metrolyrics.com/button-up-your-overcoat-lyrics-frank-sinatra.html


(Joey) #2

Love the lyrics.

Here’s a trip down memory lane…

image





#3


(Joey) #4

Now, those soda pop ads are really scary.


#5

I just did a search on the ads just now, turns out the first one “So wholesome!” is a real ad from 1956.

The “How Soon is Too Soon?” ad is a modern creation. Thankfully, cause…yikes.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

Yet most of us survived and did well enough.

Until 1980 when we got hit with the real killer:

food-guide-pyramid


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

The anti-meat crusade has been going on since John Harvey Kellogg was a teen-ager, which was not long after the Seventh-Day Adventists evolved out of the Millerites, so say somewhere around 1870, when the young Kellogg was the proofreader of Ellen White’s screeds.


(Vic) #8

This is the version in skools and public buildings today.
Its also wat you will be force fed if you end up in a hospital for some reason.


(Edith) #9

I saw this ad being use as wall decoration at a gastroenterologist office. It’s from 1924.

I believe it was Kellogg and the Seventh Day Adventists around the turn of the 20th century that started the anti meat agenda.

Edit: Oops! Just saw this info was already posted. :grimacing:


(Bob M) #10

I knew the Seventh Day Adventists were problematic, but I thought they started later.

When I was on my Pritikin diet, I loved Cream of Wheat and other hot cereals. Over time, I realized that I was freaking starving 10 minutes after eating them, though. But I was so ensconced in the low fat dogma, that I did not question this for years. At the time, everyone “knew” fat was bad for you. Or at least all the magazines and books (eg, Diet for a Small Planet) I was reading thought that.

Some of those ads are troubling.


(Jack Bennett) #11

“Eat Cream of Wheat for breakfast: it’ll hold you over until 8am. Maybe 8:30 if you have a light appetite.”

This is one reason why I’m not in advertising :laughing:


(Joey) #12

I’d always assumed they started on the 7th Day. :roll_eyes:


(Bob M) #13

I didn’t know about this for a while. Here’s one article:

And a longer version:


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

Thanks for the links, Bob. So ‘the science’ of vege/veganism is based on the hallucinations of a religious fanatic. :eyes:


(Joey) #15

Perhaps off topic but, since “crusade” is in the heading of this thread… might it be that much of what most people believe is based on the hallucinations of religious fanatics? :innocent:


(Bob M) #16

A lot of religions I guess could be based on “hallucinations” of a religious fanatic. Though I’m Catholic, it’s hard to tell whether Jesus was hallucinating or not. Though much of what is in the Bible (at least the new testament – let’s ignore the old testament for now) has admirable goals.

I’ve also often wondered where “science” and “religion” cross. For instance, several religions don’t like pork. Some think that’s because those were actually dangerous-to-eat animals at one time. Is this the reason?

The hardest for me is the rule (in the Jewish religion, for instance) not to mix dairy and meat. That is a tough one.


(Joey) #17

Relevant to the intersection of diet and religion, yes, pork was a known carrier of disease (e.g., trichinosis) and hence it was first banned in Leviticus as unclean.

To both Jews and Muslims (scholars believe that much of the Koran was written to reach a then-Jewish audience) pork remains off limits. Kosher and Halal have some overlapping dietary rules (rules on how to humanely slaughter an animal to be eaten), but also differ in many other ways (alcohol permitted vs prohibited, etc.).

Interestingly, the prohibition against the “milk + meat” combo is not actually found anywhere in the Bible (Torah).

The only prohibition that even comes close is: “You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk” (appearing in both Exodus and Deuteronomy). The idea: it would be too cruel/ironic to kill a baby goat and then prepare it in soup made with its own mother’s milk. That would be inhumane.

So centuries later the prohibition against mixing any milk with any meat (e.g., cheese and chicken? lamb and butter?) was an “add-on” from rabbinical scholars. They were inspired to keep all of the commandments with such diligent care that they went beyond the letter in order to avoid even coming close to violating an explicit commandment itself.

As a result, by refraining from mixing any dairy product with any meat product (okay, except fish), it would thereby be easy to avoid boiling a kid in its own mother’s milk.

I won’t comment on religious fanaticism here other than to suggest that, as with science, there is often a difference between theory and practice. :vulcan_salute:


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

That prohibition against mixing dairy and meat is a broadening of the divine ordinance, “You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” It could be argued that a cheeseburger does not violate that ordinance, and a devout Jew might reply that while it certainly does not violate the ordinance, broadening and strengthening the prohibition, to provide a fence around the behaviour that is actually prohibited, is an act of glorifying God. Hence all the kashrut laws, very few of which are actually ordained in Scripture. On the other hand, it could well be that the prohibition against eating pork is originally rooted in some folk wisdom regarding trichinosis, regardless of whatever theological concerns might also apply.

For me, the ancient Christian understanding that “science” and “religion” must ultimately be in harmony is compelling. The classic expression is that God is known generally in the “Book of Nature” and more specifically in the “Book of Scripture”; and for this reason, injunctions by Christian authorities against taking Scripture too literally go back at least as far as the fifth century, if not earlier. While we find a number of prominent scientists who are, or were, atheists, we find just as many (if not more) other scientists who are, or were, people of faith, including both the present Pope and the immediate past Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church (both are biologists, interestingly).

As a devout Christian myself, I have to say that, if there is solid scientific evidence in favour of a particular notion, then any contrary religious notions need to be modified or discarded, since the basic Christian principle is that the God we worship in church is the same God who created the laws of nature. So much the worse for the Seventh-Day Adventists, then, if they try to contravene such a fundamental Christian belief.


(Jack Bennett) #19

Possibly relevant: https://youtu.be/BtiMw0-akAM


#20

Here’s something the Seventh Day Adventists seem to forget/ignore.

1 Timothy 4:1-5
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.