How long before a "whoosh"?

whoosh

#6

Take some diuretics, that’s all a whoosh is, it’s always water, never fat. Once you’re up and running those days are gone. No matter what you do you can only burn fat off so fast.

Dumping the fasting would be the first thing I’d do, on the surplus is depends, what have the macros been that have been holding you where you are now?


(Marianne) #7

I’m no expert, but IMO, you may not be getting enough to eat, although at the same time, your favorable body recon is very telling. You are eating at a calorie deficit to begin with and the exercise can act like an additional calorie purge, then throw fasting on top of that. I would say your body has reached a natural stasis and unless you increase your fat intake especially, it is going to hold onto what weight you have left until you give it more fuel to do its thing without harming the host (you). My suggestion would be to meet or exceed your fat macro and start out eating three meals a day. Breakfast and lunch don’t have to be elaborate (three eggs in morning), but feed your metabolism regularly, on schedule, with what it needs (protein and fat), and then dial it back when your body tells you it doesn’t want or need to eat that often.

Good luck - keep us posted! :hugs:


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

The phenomenon of a sudden jump downwards in the scale reading does happen, but I agree that the explanation about the fat cells accumulating water and then suddenly letting it go doesn’t appear to have any data behind it.

It would be difficult to strudy this phenomenon, because it happens so randomly. As I recall, the 20-lb./9 kg whoosh I experienced occurred about five or six months after I began eating this way, and with no indication that anything was going on that might have triggered it.

Random, inexplicable jumps in scale readings might simply be part of the keto experience, however, because I also experienced an “anti-whoosh,” in which my scale suddenly read 32 lbs./14.5 kg heavier than the day before. Both jumps in the scale number appeared to have been “real” in the sense that subsequent readings were consistent, but they had no effect on my clothing size or anything like that. You’d think that, if I’d really gained 32 pounds, my trousers would have felt a lot tighter, but they didn’t. And they didn’t feel noticeably looser after my 20-lb. whoosh, either. Perhaps the scientific explanation will turn out to be that these phenomena are the result of local fluctuations in the Earth’s gravitic field, I don’t know. :smile:


(Doug) #9

Paul, that’s awesome though. :smile:

I guess we can agree that it’s mostly water that’s involved - it’s relatively heavy and what else could be going on, that fast?

I’ve had the reverse effect from eating a lot of salt (and I mean a LOT). Tissue swelling up, 8 or 10 lbs gained in part of a day…


#10

I’m out of ketosis for roughly 30 mins. The insulin spike is big and short lived. I’ve read that carbs (within reason) post workout don’t count towards your daily intake (unfortunately I can’t cite a study). The workout is suppose to stimulate your GLUT4 transporters to make carbs more easily absorbed by your cells and replenish lost glycogen even in a low insulin environment. Come to think of it, I think that was in a recent Thomas DeLauer video.

I have to say that my workouts are SOOOOO much better as a result. I did stop adding dextrose for a couple of weeks and noticed the difference in workouts immediately. I didn’t notice a change in mass though, so I reintroduced dextrose.


#11

I think that the whoosh effect hasn’t been proven, but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that claims that during a stall, one might get squishy in some areas, then pee like a race horse and be lighter the next day.

I’ve experienced this myself earlier on in my keto journey. There were at least two occasions where I had to stay close to a toilet for the day and I couldn’t explain why, then I read about the whoosh effect and it made a little sense.


#12

Usually incidental carbs that come with some meats, seasonings, greens. Hard cheeses, macadamia nuts too. But then I’ll sometimes have some tomatoes, or red/yellow peppers, and onions.

I had a few more that came with keto sweets that I’ve cut out of my diet this month.


#13

Seems reasonable, especially with your activity.

You might try higher protein and lower fat, or go with a protein sparing modified fast. This might facilitate fat loss in the areas you desire, or maybe it will only facilitate muscle growth.


#14

I drink espresso and tea regularly. 3-4 a day at the lower end. Or do you mean take water pill and see if that triggers anything?

I try to eat at least 200g of protein a day as a target, even when doing OMAD. Limit myself to 30g of carbs which doesn’t include the post-workout dextrose that was mentioned above and fat to fill in the gaps. Fat ranges from 150-250g/day depending on the day.

I weight 245lbs, 6’4", and my last DEXA had me at 33%ish BF.


(Doug) #15

Hey, I wish it would operate - that would mean that more fat is being burned in the meantime. :slightly_smiling_face:

In concept, our adipocytes are really simply constructed; I’ve just never seen any proof that they “fill with water,” even partially. Releasing a lot of water - no question this happens, sometimes. For me it’s dependent on what I eat and drink, literally can be 5kg or 10lbs difference.


(Bob M) #16

That seems reasonable, assuming you (or your muscles) are insulin sensitive and the carbs go to your muscles and not into your fat. I think of muscles as being insulin and carb sinks, but to what extent is what’s tricky. I’m sure what I could eat when I was 20 and just lifted for 90 minutes is probably different from what I can eat now (still much heavier with less muscle mass than then, working out less).


#17

That explanation makes sense. Thank you.

Here’s what I’m going to try out next week for at least 14 days:

  • put a pause on IF and eat 3 meals a deal. Even if that’s just a protein shake in the morning with some MCT
  • add in about 250 - 400kcal into my diet (should be accomplished by just eating breakfast again)
  • monitor energy levels and weight changes

If anything cool happens, I’ll be sure to update this thread.

Thank you to all that showed an interest and responded!


(Bob M) #18

The more I read about fat, the more I think they’re very complex. Very, very complex. Like this for instance:

This is one reason I think the mouse studies might not apply to humans.


(Doug) #19

They can act in complex ways, and the cytoplasm itself is certainly “complex,” very much so. But it’s still just an oddly thin cytoplasm (compared to other cells) wrapped around a globule of almost pure fat, and the globule expands and contracts with additions and subtractions. Water filling an ‘empty’ space in there - this is totally foreign to anything I’ve ever seen proven, demonstrated, observed under a microscope, etc.

I don’t claim to know for sure, either way, but the ‘partially filling with water’ - in lieu of any proof, to me it sounds like something that somebody just made up.


#20

I can’t say if they’re really filling with water or not. But it seems plausible since some areas on the body are getting very squishy and getting more squishy as the weeks go by.

Let’s see if I can another one of those “can’t be more than 5 feet away from the bathroom” days and see if the squishiness disappears. :slight_smile:


#21

This sounds like a good test. Keep the protein high for you morning and not too much MCT oil.

When I was lifting hard 15 years ago, I would add 10g of dextrose to my post workout whey. I think whey is insulinogenic for most people, so the fact bodybuilders were using whey to help spike insulin seems unnecessary knowing what I know now. However, the carbs can definitely help with performance and it seems like that’s what is happening for you.


(Carnivore for the win) #22

Alright then. Good luck with the fat loss.


#23

I only whoosh’d when I was in a dieting nightmare of insanity and believe me I loved those ‘controlled and manipulated and not real whoosh’s’ LOL

Water weight is what a whoosh is all about or a true long term starvation where the body has to give it up.

We all know, long term, slow weight loss over time is key while we change the mindset to adopt and feel wonderful on the menu plan you want for long term eating lifestyle.

So no whoosh unless ya eat up the carbs now, gain up like 6-7 lbs and whoosh off like 4-5 overnight and then you still gotta deal with those last 1-2 that will take longer to get rid of :slight_smile:

OK I am being snarky and funny on this but whoosh isn’t a real weight loss reality. It is a start on a new menu or it is thru controlled crazy that the big whoosh’s happen for most of us :slight_smile:

Best whoosh, never eat again or go on a reality show like Survivor or Biggest Loser or a show like Alone and let starvation hit ya full on and let it happen, you WILL whoosh down fast and again being funny here :slight_smile:


#24

Some people whoosh… some people don’t…and I am not talking about dropping water weight after indulging in carbs.

I do observe a whoosh at times when I lose weight…i.e peeing a lot followed by a drop in scale weight.

In my experience and from reading other people’s experiences, it is impossible to predict how long it will take to whoosh (or if you will whoosh at all…as some people’s weight loss is more of a slow and steady one).

There is also no known way to trigger a whoosh…it just happens if and when your body decides it will happen.

That said, a commonly reported symptom of an impending whoosh is the fat under your skin feeling like little marbles. When I feel that…a whoosh usually happens in 1-8 weeks depending on how my fat loss efforts (maintaining deficit, exercising etc) are going.


#25

You could do the normal water pills or use Dandelion root 3x day, people typically do 1500mg when using it actively as a diuretic. You’ll definitely dump water, question is why are you holding it. If my fat was that high I’d have problems, I can’t loose fat with my fat intake past 100g at best, around 80g did a lot more for me. Is your sodium intake real high?

Also remember using the dextrose equals more muscle glycogen which absolutely shows on the scale, make sure you’re accounting for that since it’s not fat.