How do I know I am getting enough fat?


(Alex) #1

For example, for dinner I am going to have some Italian sausages. I will fry them and they have fat inside, but when I look at each sausage, they are large, but looks like there is more meat (protein) in it than fat.
Just I eat a stick of butter after the sausages? I will be eating some Greek feta cheese with them.
Yesterday I was looking the the steak I ate. Again, even though it was fatty, there was a lot more meat on it than fat, at least from what I can see. Again, how do I know I am getting enough fat?


#2

There is no minimum, just eat normally. Your fatty foods will take care of everything.

Absolutely not, that’s internet stupidity. Ketosis is from lack of carbs, not eating sticks of butter.


(Alex) #3

Thanks! I was starting to wonder.


(Little Miss Scare-All) #4

I’m sorry. Picturing this literally, is making me laugh.

Tbh, I bite on butter. Not for the fear of fat lackage, but because I enjoy the teeth marks.


#5

Just because one sees all meat, it can be quite fatty :wink: Pork shoulders is like that, even the part with no visible fat is quite fatty and it’s very apparent.

But we all need different amount of fat and different attitude… I do my best to eat as little fat as possible (almost no added fat, that’s important) and hope that it won’t be overly much (fat is mysterious, it finds its way to my life). Some ketoers need to add fat to everything they can, apparently, some of us track (at least in the beginning of a new woe) to see if we get what we should.
And the lucky ones just eat whatever they fancy and it’s perfect (I have this with protein, I don’t really need to worry about that).

I feel if my sausages are fatty (they always are, a bit too much) but seeing? Impossible for me… Maybe because it’s all red… But as I wrote, it’s not easy with fresh meat either, the full meat part can be fatty. And fat is quite calorie dense, we don’t always need a ton of it, only if we have a high energy need and don’t even want to lose fat.

By the way, no problem with eating sticks of butter if one likes that and can afford all the extra fat. I never could. But sometimes when I know that I probably will eat little for my needs otherwise, I am more bold with some fatty dairy :wink: So yes, butter has its role but most of us definitely don’t need to eat it just to raise our fat. Fat adds up wonderfully, at least in my life. I mostly eat eggs and pork. Even with leanish pork (not the leanest but not very fatty) and very little sausage and some dairy here and there I get enough fat.
Of course, it’s about amounts too. 50-60% fat content works well for me, I don’t need super fatty items to get enough fat.


(Bob M) #6

When I was trying to eat high fat, I could add butter to things like steak or vegetables. There are some things I could not add butter to, though, and sausage would be one of them. To me, these are high in fat.

I do add butter to fish. And sometimes chicken, particularly white meat chicken if it’s at all dry.

But that’s what happens when people eat to “macros” instead of just eating “food”.


#7

When I ate 350g fat, very little added fat was present… But I had pork shoulders… And eggs.
Okay, it brought high-protein too but high-protein is given in my life. Obviously if one goes for lowish protein and very high fat, really fatty items are needed. If 75% is too low (that’s the level of pork shoulders according to my data), pork belly easily brings 90. The highest I know (that still contains meat, it’s important for me) is pork yowl, 98% fat in calorie percentage…
But there are many, many options. I like my fatty dairies too.

My favorite sausage is 78% fat, my favorite dry sausage is 83%. It’s usually enough for everyone but I am aware there are leaner ones in other countries. Maybe here too, I just never met the <75% fat in calories ones.


(Alex) #8

I would like to accelerate my body fat loss. Should I eat leaner meats? After watching so many videos on keto, I’m still mystified on how I could get my calories from 75% fat of my daily intake. What does 75% fat look like :thinking:?


#9

As I wrote, pork shoulders is allegedly 75%. Of course it’s not as simple as every slabs are somewhat different…

I can’t tell you if leaner meats are right for you. It’s individual, it depends on how much protein you need or eat, what else you eat and other things.

75% is waaaay too much to me. I would overeat quite seriously at that level unless I could pull off OMAD days all the time or something.
55-65% is nice for me, it still doesn’t guarantee any fat-loss but helps, protein always was better for satiation than fat in my case. But we all need a substantial amount of both.
Some people can pull off 80%, some need 90+ %… It’s quite wrong to do 75%, no matter what just because it’s a popular keto percentage. It should be right for us and that’s it.
Some people even can do low-fat keto, at least during their fat-loss. No problem with that as long as they get everything they need and don’t starve and it works for them.

I have this fresh photo, it’s 86% fat according to the label (in calories as always, 40% in weight as it has a big water content), I chose the meatiest piece though so it’s probably a bit less. But it’s still quite fatty so I use some of the pure fat part to get some lard to fry my eggs on. The fried fat pieces are quite nice to eat. But the meat is the best. Not alone, it’s a tad fatty for that but I have my eggy sponge cake muffins (100% eggs, I am an egg maniac and why overcomplicate things?) as bread with it. Wonderful.

But it’s quite processed meat, not for being a staple. I just don’t have some other informative photo now.

I suppose deviled eggs easily can be 75% fat too. Not mine, those are leaner. I use way more whites and don’t use mayo, after all.


(Bacon enough and time) #10

Is your meal satisfying your hunger? Can you go for hours before you get hungry again?

If so, you are getting enough fat. If not, eat more. And you don’t need all that much fat. For instance 133 g of fat gives the same number of calories as 300 g of carbohydrate.

No, eat less carbohydrate. Carbohydrate stimulates a major insulin response, and insulin is the major fat-storage hormone. To keep insulin low, eat less carbohydrate. Fat has almost no effect on insulin secretion; it stimulates just enough insulin to keep us alive. Protein is somewhere in the middle, but on a low-carb diet, the insulin secretion caused by protein is matched by an equivalent glucagon secretion (both hormones are secreted by cells in the Islets of Langerhans in the pancreas), so we stay in ketosis.


#11

This is exactly what I was gonna say :sunny:

Your fat intake will regulate your hunger. If you are getting real hunger more frequent, then eat a bit more fat and it tends to control your appetite. Some people will ‘want more fatty meat’ and if you feel you need it, eat it. Some days your body is telling you to eat a tad leaner cause you are not in the mood for fatty meats, then eat leaner. You will ‘feel it from the body’ on what your meals should be.

Agree with others, don’t be eating butter sticks HA


(Bacon enough and time) #12

Also forgot to say that some people need a bit more protein than others, and if you are not getting enough protein you will still be hungry, regardless of fat. So if fat isn’t satisfying the way we are saying, get more protein, and then the fat should be self-regulating, as @Fangs says.


(Alex) #13

I’m doing OMAD 3 days out of the week, I do get hungry a few hours before. I’m eating less than 20 g of carbs per 24 hours, so the carb part I’m doing good at. I guess I just need to give it more time to lose more weight. I’m not very active, I work behind a computer screen, and other than taking my dog for walks so he can do his business, I’m not getting too much exercise. I am losing weight, just not as fast as I would like, but I shouldn’t complain.


#14

I very, very, very easily overeat fat (carbs help but I can do it carnivore, at least for one day… surely could do longer but I automatically try to keep my fat intake “low”, it’s ingrained since many years). Some of us do need to focus on leaner food (or OMAD. mine fell apart again but I will do it with more fat and we will see).

High enough protein is needed, sure but my satiation is the same even if I eat 100-200g more fat and way more protein. I have some minimum, apparently and then… I can eat in a huge range, I just need to choose the right items for the energy intake (and maybe the size of my eating window but food choice is more important).

On OMAD, most of us rather eat too little than too fat. I know I should eat fattier there as good protein sources satiate me quickly (it wouldn’t be true with more carbs) but some people can eat more and some hopelessly undereat on OMAD…
Slow fat-loss is fine. Though some people lose fat at a decent pace and consider it slow…
Eating too little slows down things for some people, even fat-loss. And metabolism for everyone, we don’t want that (some people do but shouldn’t, the body has a good reason to spend so much energy on its functions).

Can you give us some numbers, how much do you eat, how big is your extra fat to get energy from? Due to the many factors it doesn’t help to say how much one should eat but in extreme cases it’s obvious or highly likely that the current intake is wrong.


#15

The rules that I go by may be useful to you…

I eat 20g of carbs MAXIMUM
150g of protein MINIMUM
then the rest of the food comes from fat till I hit my calorie goal, or I am satisfied.

If I am exercising that day, I eat more, but not more carbs or protein, just higher fat.

I am lucky that my needs work out that that I need roughly the same amount of fat as protein to hit 2300calories a day.
Which means that if I choose foods that have about the same amount of fat and protein that will ballence perfectly.
Pork belly, some cheese, is about 50/50
If I eat lean protein, like powder, tuna, chicken, then I add mayo, or cream, olive oil.

So if I want to have a lower calorie day, or a high calorie day, I always aim for the same amount of carbs and protein. It is only the amount of fat that I am changing.


(Diana) #16

I think often people have issues understanding how to create the meal. It’s clear keep carbs under 20, eat protein to x grams, use fat as lever. But it’s not like anyone is going to eat these items separately. What I mean is it’s not as if you can eat cucumber, top sirloin and then you add butter or tallow separately until you’re full. It’s all combined and again maybe just me but this is where I find trouble with the whole concept “fat as lever” and try and stick to specific grams of each macro so that when I make the food it already has the desired fat grams. But in this case let’s say you’re still hungry, it would indicate you haven’t eaten enough fat. But no one wants to eat plain fat…so then you end up over consuming protein as it came with it…. Sorry if I’m being dumb. Just what I’ve found. Finally now I just make 73% ground beef and add some extra tallow so that I know I’ll be full.


(Diana) #17

I’ve found that saturated fat is more filling (tallow, butter, bacon drippings). Not sure which fat you’re eating, but I’d try to lean on more saturated fat just for a day or so and see how you feel. (For some reason I can eat a 20g total carb salad and douse with pure olive oil but won’t be as full in comparison to a saturated fat on beef). Try short ribs :slight_smile: or lamb… slow cooked and eat with the melted off fat. But start slow. I’m fat adapted and my micro biome can handle a lot more fat. Whereas initially I’d get upset stomach if too much fat was eaten in a sitting….


(Bacon enough and time) #18

Overconsuming protein is not the problem many people appear to think it is. You want enough protein; it is hard to get too much.

Also, when people speak of a low-carb, high-fat diet, they are talking in terms of calories. If you are eating meat that contains an equal amount of protein and fat by weight, you are getting 31% of calories as protein, and 69% of calories as fat, because fat contains 9 cal/g, whereas protein contains only 4 cal/g.

So just eat meat, and eat enough to satisfy your hunger. Then you should be fine. (You can actually skip the cucumber, if you want, lol!) The key to a keto diet is to limit carbohydrate intake, so as to lower insulin, which is the primary fat-storage hormone.


(Marianne) #19

Hi Paul, age old question again - what do we do if we are eating zero carb and still have some body fat to lose? I just want to get these last remaining 15 lbs. off of me. The last option I can think of is exercise, which I detest. I know it would be beneficial to me, however.


(Bacon enough and time) #20

Exercise has been shown by a number of studies to be useless for shedding weight, though it has many other benefits. Over the long term, it promotes mitochondrial health in skeletal muscle, which is a good thing. The problem, as Prof. Bikman says, is that as muscles use energy more efficiently, they are not going to need as much fat to power themselves. On the other hand, over time on a low-carb diet, the adipose cells tend to become “uncoupled,” which means that their energy use is not limited to their specific energy needs. In other words, they become able to waste energy.

How you are going to convince your body that it can be comfortable parting with even more of its energy reserves is always a challenge. I lost 80 lbs./36 kg of fat on keto, but could stand to lose just as much again. But Dr. Phinney says that the typical fat loss they have seen is about 20% of starting weight, and my fat loss was 26% of my starting weight, as near as I can figure, so I guess I’m ahead of the game. Dr. Phinney does say, however, that they do see people’s fat loss starting up again after a few years. He speculates that the body may need some time at the new weight in order to be comfortable shedding more fat. On these forums, we used to talk about our “Phinney weight,” which is, as Dr. Phinney describes it, “the weight you can get to without too much trouble, and which you can maintain from then on.”

Fasting may help you shed those last 15 lbs., I don’t know. There is so much individual variability involved that it’s hard to say. Certainly, calorie-restriction (which Dr. Fung says is very different from fasting) is likely to be counter-productive.