How do I know I am getting enough fat?

[robintemplin]

That’s n excellent basic plan! Well explained too.

[Rusty]

But it’s not like anyone is going to eat these items separately. What I mean is it’s not as if you can eat cucumber, top sirloin and then you add butter or tallow separately until you’re full.

Actually, that is simular to what i do.
I have my plan, which might be that i have some chicken and some cabbage. If i am having a leaner meal i might add a little oil and fry them up together with garlic and spices. If im having a fattier meal I will add cream.
But if i had the leaner meal, then realised I wasnt full up and needed more fat. I would take some double cream, whip it up amd have it with blue berries, blackberries, or on a coffee, or peanut butter.
If I need to eat fat to get full, I will allow myself to have a little more protein, but it would not be our of the question to just eat some sliced cheese, drink a shot of olive oil, or double cream, butter coffee, pork rinds, bacon etc.

[gingersmommy]

Dr. Phinney does say, however, that they do see people’s fat loss starting up again after a few years. He speculates that the body may need some time at the new weight in order to be comfortable shedding more fat.

Thanks, Paul. I’ve been on clean keto for 2 years and clean carnivore for a year and a half (3.5 years total). I’m in a good spot and will just chill out and hope that my weight loss restarts at some point.

[Shinita]

You aren’t dumb or else I would be dumb too and I am not
You are right. I never understand when people act like we just could separate carbs and protein and fat. All my food has protein and fat together and I love the ratio in a not too big range too.
AND my calories are between 1300 and 4100 kcal if I look at the last months.
(And eating fat wouldn’t satiate me anyway.)

My solution is simple, I eat whatever I fancy. If my protein end up being 250g instead of 120g, so be it! (It only happens occasionally, I am perfectly fine with 120-180g on most days and it’s a nice feeling for me. I am almost always over 2g/kg for LBM, my average is higher too but it’s not a bad thing.) But it’s rare as I actually go for fattier protein when I ate plenty of protein already so I can know I don’t just lack protein (as that happens. I may eat 200+ g fat, if my protein is low for me, I get hungry again and again and again. not fun). It’s both instinctive and a conscious decision.

It’s good that we usually have a huge range. Except for carbs. We don’t need to eat only fat just because we already ate more than enough protein. There is an upper limit but for most of us it’s hard to reach.

I don’t even need to track (though I do out of curiosity. not accurately as that’s impossible, even the same cuts have varied fat content) to have my macros in the right range. I just need to be careful with fat and other non-satiating food. But some don’t even need to do that.

I would take some double cream

Yeah, there’s that route too. I only go for such non-satiating items when I am sure I can pull it off, I rather grab some sausage but I have my days… I plan ahead, usually and don’t get shy with mascarpone or sour cream or whipping cream when I know I will eat 5-600g lean pork as my base… As no way I can balance it out with my tiny dairy dessert (I trained myself out of eating much from low-protein items as I kept overeating fat). But some people can do it.

[Finishingtouches]

Right now I’m trying to do a few weeks dairy free as I’m seeing it’s quite palatable and increasing my appetite (that’s my test anyway). Also I’m trying to focus on eating the main meal, as eating anything after to supplement then ends up being more desirable to eat so then I over-consume….or I find myself the next day unintentionally eating less almost saving room for that supplement (like pork rinds or cheese). That’s why I was trying to upfront load the fat so I do get full within the meal.

[Rusty]

yes. that sounds very sensible.
I am coming from totally the opposite side of this as I struggle to get enough calories and need to find ways to add more.

[x-Dena-x]

as I struggle to get enough calories and need to find ways to add more.

Same for me usually. I feel stuck around 800-1000 often. I usually remedy with olive oil on stuff. Small amount, high fat, high cals, very good for you to boot.

I don’t care much about calories, mainly if they’re just way too low for days in a row.

[Finishingtouches]

I’m a female, small in frame. So don’t require more than 1100-1200. I don’t do resistance training either.

[Finishingtouches]

So over consuming protein may not be an issue from staying in ketosis. But weirdly enough I do find on days when my protein grams are higher than fat grams I’m still hungry, for same amount of calories if the next day I eat more fat grams than protein I’m full on the exact same calories. So that’s why recently I’ve been trying to make my meals heavier on the fat side but already incorporated as I said I don’t want to finish my meal and still be hungry as then I’ll inevitably eat more calories as you need to eat something with the additional fat.
To your point, if I eat a ribeye which should meet the ratios you noted, I’m never sure if the meat truly had the fat content Cronometer assumes. I eat grass fed beef and so it tends to be on leaner side…but in any kind of meat the fat will vary from cow to cow. Never can be sure. So for my experiment I’ve been adding in tallow to test out my theory…

[dfossey]

Exercise has been shown by a number of studies to be useless for shedding weight, though it has many other benefits.

It’s interesting because I’ve had varied results with exercise and weight loss over the years. At one point, I was training for a half-marathon, so I was running 3-4 times a week and supplementing with other cardio 1-2 times a week. I did that for 7-8 months and lost almost no weight. Another period in my life, I was playing soccer & Gaelic football, both with high-intensity practices during the week, and I lost a lot of weight. I wonder if the difference was that the soccer/Gaelic was much more of a HIIT activity than running was.

[Shinita]

I’m never sure if the meat truly had the fat content Cronometer assumes.

That’s the case with fatty meat. I am unsure about my tracking too but what can I do?
I follow my body signs to figure out how much to eat and my tracking has some unknown accuracy.
And it’s not just the cow (or pig in my case), each slab is different! Sometimes I buy pretty lean pork chuck, other times it’s super fatty and I know what the average here looks like and it may or may not be close to the data I use… But when I give my SO the leaner part, that’s total chaos… I am glad I don’t eat according to my tracking, I just try to guesstimate my numbers even if it’s very much not accurate. Nowadays my meat is leaner, that probably helps Except when I start to add pork belly, that has a label but I chose the meatiest piece in the supermarket… Impossible to do it right but still. I like to know my numbers at least vaguely… Especially protein and that’s more accurate.

For an experiment one may use items where this huge inaccuracy doesn’t happen.

And yes, some people works better with more fat, others with more protein - and some just need calories, my SO gets satiated with calories, apparently, it may be high-carb, still works well for him… And as we know, fats and proteins aren’t even the same satiation wise… Do whatever works for you if you know what that is.

[Finishingtouches]

See I don’t trust myself to eat until satiety. So like to know at least estimated to best extent of calories. That way I know if my mind is playing tricks on on me (as the portion of keto food is smaller). And no matter how hard I try to eat slowly I end up not…so my brain doesn’t realize I’m full. But by controlling the calories on my plate allows me to manage this situation.

[coopdawg]

I dunno,

At the start to medium duration of keto, I just graduated to less eating, them 2MAD, and OMAD sometimes. It just felt natural.

Then on some days, as soon as I was awake I couldn’t wait to eat.
I don’t do long fasts, 24 hr max.

I craved weird stuff…pickles and eggs, meat, condiments. Mushrooms even.

It’s a journey (I know, that sounds like a cr*p cliche…but it has been for me and those who know me). I don’t think I have ‘optimised’ my WOE just yet, but I will.

Best of luck mate.

[robintemplin]

Hey girl… here’s something, maybe similar. suddenly people are telling me I look thinner. I kinda see it in my face, but my clothes fit the same and the scales haven’t moved in months. (I finally checked today. Still 155.) I’m good with that.

Maybe my overall shape has changed…?
Just passed my 1 yr carniversary.

[scaperdude]

My answer to everything now is to eat more MCTs. Try goat yogurt with some erythritol/monk fruit sweetener and berries. Drink non-sugared coconut milk. MCTs seem to “force” your fat into fat burning mode - of course keep off sugar. Let us know if you try this… inquiring minds want to know…

[x-Dena-x]

I craved weird stuff…pickles and eggs, meat, condiments. Mushrooms even.

[coopdawg]

Hahahaha!

No Dena, I’m male.

I dunno…I think when you stop certain foodstuffs, you may crave other foods as a replacement/compliment?

My latest cravings are pickled mussels and cockles, and pickled silverskin onions.

[Shinita]

@coopdawg, all your cravings seem totally normal to me. These are all nice things.
Except I don’t know what pickled mussels and cockles are like. But they are pickled. I love pickled things.

[PaulL]

I do find on days when my protein grams are higher than fat grams I’m still hungry, for same amount of calories if the next day I eat more fat grams than protein I’m full on the exact same calories.

So you’ve learned something valuable about yourself, congratulations.

I find in my own case it’s not necessary to count calories, so long as I keep my carb intake low. Both when I was losing fat and now that my weight and body composition are stable, the actual caloric value of what I eat seems to be far less important than my body’s hormonal response to the foods I’m eating.

On some days it takes more food to satisfy my appetite, on others it takes much less, but I figure my body knows what it needs. I have also found Dr. Phinney to be right, in that on days when I ignore that sensation of satiety and eat a bit more for psychological reasons, my metabolism seems to rev up, and I start perspiring more. It’s a real-life demonstration of the body’s ability to adjust to what we give it, I guess.

[gingersmommy]

Hey, Robin, I agree. I’ve noticed body changes, too. My stomach is flatter (somewhat - more than it has been - although I’d like it totally flat), my face and jawline are more sculpted and I think my waist has more definition. I don’t know if that translates to any weight loss on the scale as I don’t go to the doctor’s for another month or so. I really don’t care about the number. What I have noticed even a while ago, is that my cellulite is gone! Unbelievable to me. Even the times when I was very thin, I still had cellulite on my butt and legs. Another concrete indicator that I am in great metabolic health (without having to do anything but eat well!). What a gift!