How can I get up to speed on the science?

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #1

I heard @richard on the Break Nutrition podcast, and his command of the biochemistry is intimidating. I’d like to be able to speak with half as much authority about the science of fat regulation.

A few months ago, after I heard Ivor Cummins (@thefatemperor) on the podcast, I took his recommendation and bought The Chemistry of Life by Stephen Rose. I started reading it but found it fairly difficult to get through even the early parts of it. It could just be that even that book was slightly too advanced for someone who’s never even studied biology, and whose chemistry ended in the 9th or 10th grade.

Now, in the meantime I’ve read a bunch of academic papers (from reputable journals like the New England Journal of Medicine) that I found neatly linked somewhere on the web. But for the most part I had to skip the biochemistry and jump straight from method to conclusion, and take it on faith that the authors knew what they were on about.

Does anyone have recommendations for how I can get hip to the lingo of substrates and downstream effects and endothelial dysfunction (whatever that is) and really get a grasp of at least the basics of, shall we say, the endocrinological theory of fat regulation? Or is the metabolic system so complex that I’ll really have to get into the weeds before I’ll be able to understand it with any level of confidence?

I’d really like to be able to (a) have a basic but solid enough understanding of the science to satisfy my own curiosity, and (b) speak with enough authority when asked about our lifestyle that I don’t sound like a fad diet fanboi.

EDIT: Oh, and c) understand why my body remains plateaued at 80kg with a reasonable amount of fat that I could clearly comfortably drop. :rofl:

#2

My bible has been Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes. Really smart, but good read.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #3

The book that got me into LCHF!

(Holly Easterling) #4

The Obesity Code podcast is a really good mix of individual stories, science explained by laymen, and science explained by doctors.

Also hop on YouTube and check out some of the videos there. The visuals in Dr. Fung’s presentations made them click better for me and the Ketovangelist finally explained in ketosis versus fat adapted in a way that I understood.

(Rick) #5

Which Ketovangelist podcasts gave you this info? Interested to listen to them! Thanks!!

#6

Have you read Fung’s blog from the beginning? That was what started me. It is not college level biochem but it is somewhat complicated for the averge lay person which I am. I have sent it to a number of people I know and the response I get is that it is dense. I get the sense that many are not motivated enough to work their way through

I have the same question, while I do not have a science background, I believe I am capable of understanding anything that I can read at a reasonable level. I tried reading a little bit of Feinman’s blog who is a biochemist, that may be a good place to start. Yet I think I need more basic knowledge that I can build on but I do not have time to take a college level course (although I suppose if we can find a good distance learning course that we can audit maybe we can encourage each other!)

@richard I am jealous and impressed by the level of your knowledge and curious how you acquired it. You seem to understand biochemistry, how did you get your education?

(Richard Morris) #7

I did a little biochem in my math degree in the mid 80s. But I only got into this when severely Diabetic one day I was watching random Youtube videos and caught one by Prof. Tim Noakes and everything he said made sudden sense and was in violent opposition to the common understanding of diet/diabetes/nutrition. He turned me onto some US researchers who wrote a book for HCPs called “The Art and Science of Low Carb Ketogenic Diets” … and then for 4 years I have followed every biochemical conversation and tried to keep up.

I’m going back to school this year to study Biochem because while I know a little about a very narrow slice of the subject (enough to save my diabetic toes), I am ignorant of everything to either side of that - so time to flesh that out too.

(Richard Morris) #8

BTW one of the reasons we built the Ketogenic Forum, and kept going into technical detail in our podcast was to try to create among our audience people who can become the keto expert in their own communities.

The only way we’re going to be able to survive the oncoming Diabetes tsunami is if we can build a grass roots revolution. It is evident that we can’t rely on the peak Dietetic and Diabetic bodies to drive the required change with a top down movement - we’re going to have to change them by changing their customers.

(Rebecca) #9

I’ve been reading The Ketogenic Bible by Dr. Jacob Wilson and (almost Dr. ) Ryan Lowery. It’s a good mix of the science and research as well as it’s application in a variety of settings. Plus it includes a bunch of recipes too!!! It’s nice because you can jump around, you don’t have to read it from front to back.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

A community-college or adult-education course in organic chemistry might be a good place to start. I’ve been relying on the orgo I got in high school umpteen years ago, and at least I can get the basics. If you like it, you can go on from there. But at the very least you’ll learn why carbon bonds are so important, and the names of the basic hydrocarbons and their alcohols, and it will give you a sense of how the names are compounded, so that you can look at a chemical name and get a vague idea of how the molecule is put together.

The endocrinological stuff will probably have to wait until you’ve laid the foundation. You can definitely get a broad picture without it, so how you study it will depend on what your learning goals are. But I suspect that a basic biology course, along with the basic organic chemistry course, would give you a great foundation.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #11

That’s what I was afraid of :wink:

Though I suspect you’re right!

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #12

Part of the problem is that everyone’s an “expert” at a certain level, but if you drill down they can’t really explain to you much beyond “insulin is the primary hormone regulating fat accumulation, and carbohydrates are the primary macronutrient regulating insulin levels.” I know I can’t.

That’s all well and good, but I think it’s valuable to have a deeper, more granular understanding of the biochemistry, if that’s possible for a layman. Do you have any recommendations as to how to get enough basic knowledge?

You’re quite humble about your knowledge, @richard, but you sounded like you knew your shit on that Break Nutrition episode.

Re the “art and science” books, you were talking about this one, right?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CVV2AE/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

I own two copies! One in New York, and one at my parents’ place in Sydney :wink:

(Holly Easterling) #13

But he interviews a lot of interesting folks, too!

(Rick) #14

Thank you!!

(Keto in Katy) #15

Same here. That book turned on the light for me.

(Richard Morris) #16

I’d be fine with that. That is adequate to challenge the dogma that is feeding type 2 diabetics a Low Fat High Grain diet that is killing them. If we can teach several thousand people all across Australia and North America to be able to make that case then I reckon we can reverse the diabetes epidemic.

Yes, that and the Art and Science of Low Carb performance by Phinney and Vollek.

On our podcast I don’t usually get a chance to geek out - I think the last time I did was the show about protein. This is all stuff that sparks my curiosity. What causes us to make ketones? What do we make them from? How does making them differ from just eating them? What do we do with them? It’s why I’m going back to school. And if we haven’t turned this Diabetes epidemic around by the time I’m done … then I’ll try to get into doing some fundamental research to nudge us further in that direction.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #17

When I heard you say you were going back to uni, and then again when I heard you on Break Nutrition, I felt as if you might have a second career in this. You could really effect change.

I appreciate that it’s ok for most people to have a rudimentary understanding of the science, but do let me know if you have any advice as to how I (we!) can get a more fundamental basis of knowledge so that we can at least understand the basics of these biochemical processes beyond a popular science level of comprehension!

#18

Have you listened to anything by Chris Masterjohn? I like his videos for the basic science. He goes into a lot of detail, but they are well done. Not sure- but sounds like something you might be interested in.

(Gabe “No Dogma, Only Science Please!” ) #19

He looks decent. Are there any other online courses/youtube channels with a similar objective – ie talking about biochemistry with a focus on metabolism?

#20

Not that I have found- meaning no one reference that puts everything that we are learning now together in one place. You may also like “khan academy” for quick summaries of biochemistry topics. Not as deep as Chris Masterjohn (IMO). I also looked at some videos “CrashCourse” in the past. They have a metabolism segment- I don’t recall if it was good or not. They are pretty short and try to make it engaging (again, not deep like Chris Masterjohn).