Honey question


(Delbert Carr) #1

I’ve been on keto for about six months. I cheated for a week during the holidays. I did a 7 day fast for spiritual reasons but also was grateful it helped my ketones go back up but only got to 3.8. After starting to eat again it dropped each week until now I am hitting only .5. I try to stay under 20g of total carbs a day and 18/6 fast. I eat e tsp of manuka honey or bee pollen a day. I am wondering if that could be the reason my ketones drop so much. I am also wondering if I should eat those only aftrr weight training or if there is another way to mitigate any effects. I want to continue the health benefits from the honey and bee pollen. Also weight isn’t dropping.


(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #2

Honey is sugar. Plain and simple. No different to any other sugar and would be about the quickest thing you could do to drop out of ketosis.
Personly I doubt (also I think Dr Berry says this) there’s nothing different in manuka from any other type, all just bee vomit lol


(Bob M) #3

A teaspoon of honey won’t hurt. If you’re concerned about dropping ketones, that’s what happens to many of us over time. I’m lucky to get 0.3 mmol/l in the mornings, most times, I’m lower.

For weight not dropping, that’s a harder one. So many possibilities. Try to change things. If you’re eating higher fat, try higher protein and lower fat. If you’re eating higher protein, try higher fat. Even break the 18/6 every once in a while, if you can. (I’m not hungry in the morning, so it’s tough for me to do that.).


#4

At least in my case a small amount of fructose does not drop ketones:
I have been using melatonin in spray form for a while now, only if I wake up at 3 AM or so. Helps to sleep again.

Well guess what I just noticed? They have added fructose, it is a main ingredient in that bloody spray! It does taste sweet but I am stupid and did not notice.

Nevertheless, my ketones were whopping 4,1 just a couple of days ago -and I had been using that spray almost every night for a week then. So no ketone drop, other effects I can not guess.

I will ditch that spray though, it´s the most stupidest thing since sugared bacon. I do not want ANY sugar, not to mention some turbo-mega-absorbing fructose spray under my tongue…

This World is just crazy,adding sugar everywhere. And while at it, my “Dinit” nitro spray is almost pure Spiritus Fortus, booze. Took me a while to notice that,too. And doc ordered that to me despite me telling about my totally necessary abstaining from alcohol. There I was, spraying hard booze under my tongue, wondering why drinking cravings are rising their heads…?

In dark moments I am thinking conspiracy, are “they” trying to poison “us” after all?


(Joey) #5

Sorry, I’m confused… What are the “health benefits” of eating sugar? :man_shrugging:


(KM) #6

My take on this, it’s just about the money. Find the thing that is the most appealing to the largest number of people and market it. Ignore the science, or muddy the scientific waters by insisting it’s unclear and most likely fine, so you can go on pushing your product on everyone, most of whom will be delighted to partake. :rage:. We basically live in an AI world where truth is now based on the popular vote by the least common denominator.


(Bob M) #7

There are some benefits to manuka honey:

Though some of this is epidemiological and not RCT:

This shows a benefit for dental therapy:

There are some more studies that show a benefit to manuka honey, but the detriment for anything oral is that it’s not possible to do an RCT.


(Joey) #8

I’m seeing fractions of a millimeter of gum pocket with no difference produced in either measured plaque nor in bleeding of gums.

In other words, this is another of those countless “statistically significant” but clinically meaningless results.

Even if applied to gums for supposed antibacterial benefits (which still fail to reduce either plaque or bleeding), it remains unclear why anyone would want to swallow the honey. Rinse and spit. :tooth: [Once you swallow, any supposed beneficial effect of honey on periodontal disease then ceases.]


(Delbert Carr) #9

Personally the local bee pollen has appeared to really help with my allergies and dry up my sinuses. The manuka honey I was sold on by a video thomas delaure did that pointed to a bunch of benefits but I’m personally only noting relaxation, which may just be because I fed my sugar addiction…


#10

After workout seems the best place for eating some almost pure sugar, it does the least problems there - but one teaspoon is very tiny anyway, probably didn’t make a huge difference in the long run, just veryt temporarily, even more after a workout. Sugar is a good energy for the body, after all, humans just tend to overdo it and many feels worse if it’s a significant amount anyway and fat may be better in most cases… I just try to follow the signs of my body, if it has problems with honey, I don’t eat it regularly. I see it as sugar with very little extra anyway, just like fruit, no matter what kind of honey or fruit. It may be more beneficial for some and even mere belief can make a difference, I don’t consider them healthy and good, just extremely good tasting, occasional tiny treats at most. I loved honey (ate much more than normal added sugar before I went low-carb) but it’s easy to live without it. At least I can handle several months but it’s nice to eat it sometimes…

We all have different needs, sensitivities, priorities… Honey may be just as a great idea for the OP as banana was for me in the beginning… That was more like mental need in my case but still, that is valid too and it brought physical benefits as I didn’t quit keto right away… :upside_down_face:
Amounts matter a lot!


(Joey) #11

We’re all n=1 studies of ourselves… :slight_smile: and so if it works, it works!

Personally, I’ve been searching for the perfect placebo for years. I’ve found several excellent candidates but still cannot figure out how to self-administer without tipping myself off. :thinking:


(Alec) #12

My advice is to not chase ketones. Just keep the carb count below 20 total.


(Joey) #13

Agree with the spirit. I believe the math involved remains open to individualized debate.


(Delbert Carr) #14

I want to thank everyone for their time and thoughtful responses to my questions!


#15

FWIW, My gum bleeding completely goes away when I´ve been in very low carb ketosis for a month. Blood ketone meter 1,5-3,5 thereabouts. No red in toothpaste foam when I spit it out.

I suspect the reduced overall inflammation because of no sugars. It may be the greatly reduced blood pressure,too.Or both.

I have had gums slightly bleeding for ages, dentists have not found anything wrong. Nobody has recommended sugar for a fix. A good ketosis fixes it for me and I like this.

Be careful. Honey is a very aggressively marketed, high profit product as a “cure for all”. >>>Keto and sugar is a strange combo…

Some people deeply believe in honey. And if it works for something,it works ,placebo or not. But it´s still sugar and can wreck your keto.

I have been spraying that stupid fructose-melatonin, very small amounts. And I have gained one kilo in the last two weeks.


#16

In my opinion, a teaspoon of honey won’t affect weight loss persay, as long as your total net carbs (or total carbs) for the day stays low enough to keep you in ketosis.

I had a cough a year or so ago & a spoon of manuka honey before bed seemed to work better that cough syrups for suppressing my cough during the night & allowing me to sleep.

My total net carbs for the day still remained less than 25g and I never went out of ketosis.

I’ll recommend to stop chasing ketone levels, as long as you are in ketosis, I think you are fine

You could however maybe try to see if you are overeating fat, which seems to halt weight loss for some people (the logic being your body won’t burn your body fat if you are already giving it a lot of fat to burn from your diet). Might be beneficial prioritizing protein for a while, with moderate fat.


#17

Was that for me?

I´m not “chasing” ketones, I like to know how they change. Same with blood glucose.

How does one know “as long as you are in ketosis…?” without measuring blood?

Fat is “burning” well, I have lost one kilo of visceral and a couple of cm waist in two weeks. Weight is about the same but I´m not chasing the scale either.

No sugar is a safe way to play this.


(KM) #18

:sweat_smile: Sadly, there appears to be an inversely proportional relationship between knowledge and self delusion. Maybe they’ll find a cure for that…honey, perhaps. :honey_pot:


#19

Makes sense, in general but I can imagine being knowledgeable and keeping some of those naive innocent harmless delusions… (I won’t try to find the i with 2 dots on it now, it’s lunchtime and I am hungry)


(KM) #20

I think that’s called “compartmentalization due to cognitive dissonance”. Enjoy your lunch! :smile: