High Protein Modified "Keto + Fasting" muscle building with low fat


I’m a fan of the skipjack & would love to eat it every day but still… I guess you know what you’re doing :smile:

(Karim Wassef) #22

I am trying to know what I’m doing but always open to learning new things (by finding out when I’m wrong :smiley:)

I don’t recommend this for anyone else looking to lose fat. It’s absolutely not necessary. I’m just in a different place in my journey and I’m trying new things.


The higher protein/lower fat thing is excellent for fat loss - best of luck :crossed_fingers:

(Karim Wassef) #24

Here’s the fish dataset sorted by protein %


I’m a little data driven

(Karim Wassef) #25

Day 1 - Mon June 17, 2019

The “electrodermal” reading is actually blood ketones since my iPhone doesn’t have a place to store that.

Being high protein, I generally start off at 0.2K. I’ve been dealing with high stress, so my fasted morning glucose has varied between 90 and 115G so 82G is actually not too bad.

My preferred state during fasting is 50G and 1K but that’s been unreachable thus far with 200g+ protein.

(Karim Wassef) #26

I will post my DEXA, RMR, GKI (blood glucose and ketones), loose skin and muscle progression as time allows.

I also plan to elaborate on my new schedule of push pull training.

(Karim Wassef) #27

Calorie counting is not key to my progression but I’ve started keeping a detailed macros log over the last 60 days. I did this because my hunger while on protein was higher and I couldn’t trust my satiety signaling.

I didn’t have a hard time cutting carbs when I first went keto. I am surprised at how difficult it is to keep fat ~85g a day with this much protein. It’s a bit unnatural as I’m used to a fatty “substrate” for my food and I now need to be much more creative with spices and bases to create texture and flavor that fat naturally brought.

I can open a can of tuna in water, sprinkle lime salt & turmeric with a splash of ACV … but it’s not really enough zest and mouth feel?

Open to any ideas here. Just a spoon of oil can totally throw my daily macros out of wack.

(Karim Wassef) #28

Ok. In pursuit of a low fat low carb “base” for my high protein, I’ve selected a subset of ingredients:

  1. Mushrooms
  2. Avocado (high fat - minimize)
  3. Lettuce
  4. Garlic
  5. Ginger & ginger juice
  6. Celery
  7. Onions (high carb - minimize)
  8. Lime (high carb - minimize)
  9. ACV
  10. Sauerkraut
  11. Pickles
  12. Pickled ginger
  13. Radish
  14. Mustard
  15. Olives and pickled olives

I excluded cucumbers, tomatoes and bell peppers for being too carby.

The idea is to make a zesty base with enough flavor, texture and mouth feel to balance out the dryness of the tuna.

My engineering mind wanted to just put the tuna in a processer and make it into a protein paste, add water and salt and just chug it… but that seems like a bad idea on so many levels.

Considered adding pea protein powder to the paste and making that into patties … then grilling it… I see that as a culinary disaster as well.

Any chefs (or just competent food makers) have some other ideas on how to turn canned tuna (10 cans) into a single meal without dairy or eggs and minimizing carbs and fats?

(KetoQ) #29

Karim –

Found this video as well. This couple is very knowledgeable and keto friendly.

(Karim Wassef) #30

Thanks! Checking it out now. I like Mike and his wife. Some vids are very scientific, and some are more opinion/lifestyle.

Right now, I think cycling between fasting all day and then heavy protein load is the way to go… but it’s a journey and I’m constantly evolving in my thinking.

(Karim Wassef) #31

Day 1 pic:

Today was a push day:

Bench press
Tricep cable
Decline bench

But just had to add some bicep curls… :smiley:

(Karim Wassef) #32

Digging more into a couple of high protein concepts:

Anabolic resistance with age
Protein adaptation after fat adaptation

I’m finding that after tolerating the hunger pains from high protein “lower fat” keto for a week, it’s getting better. I am much more satiated after my big protein meal and don’t get hungry at night like I used to. The day is still uncomfortable but getting better. I think it’s an adaptation process much like fat adaptation.

My ketones used to stay at 0.2 all day, and now they’re starting to rise to 0.4, 0.6 and even 0.7 on some days (before the meal). I think lower cortisol has a role to play there too, but it’s an interesting observation.

It may also be that high protein with OMAD is harder than keto OMAD and it’ll take 2MAD to balance out. Not going there yet since I’m giving this a month of data collecting first.

Here’s more on protein minimum needs:

(Karim Wassef) #33

Here’s another idea for making the dry tuna more palatable:

Fish gelatin https://www.amazon.com/Fish-Gelatin-Powder-Unflavored-Comparable/dp/B00SA12QS0

I’m missing a creamy medium like olive oil, tahini or mayo… but maybe a spicy gelatin-based cream could do the job? Maybe radish or mustard and ginger… or with sriracha and lime

I am literally making this stuff up…

(George) #34

I’ve been considering doing the same on my fasting days. Do you think that consuming that would halt autophagy? The protein shake I used to drink was 50g protein per serving, zero carb, and 240 calories

I still have a lot of fat I’m trying to cut, but don’t want to lose any of the lean mass I’ve been building underneath

(George) #35

I should have also added that my lifting schedule only falls on 1 of my fasting days.

Lift Sunday Monday Wednesday Thursday
Fasting Thursday through Saturday.

(Karim Wassef) #36

I absolutely believe that it will stop autophagy but not necessarily stop fat oxidation.

Autophagy is interrupted whenever the body feels that there isn’t a lack of nutrients for an extended window. How long? Probably three days of zero (or near zero) calories and no carbs.

So my 200g of protein will absolutely stop autophagy but my goal is to be in ketosis with an AMPK trigger for the longest possible time for those days. It’ll drive fat burning but with a lot of hunger too :frowning: (unlike keto fasting).

My goal would be to hit glucose in the 60s and ketones >1… so that’s a GKI under 3.4

Autophagy is GKI < 1 and I don’t think it’s possible to be that deep into autophagy and not lose lean mass. Actually, that’s part of the benefit - losing old broken disfunctional lean mass… so you can rebuild it with healthy new lean mass after.

That second phase is where I am but I still want to lose fat.

(George) #37

I wish I had your patience to conduct these awesome self experiments LOL.

(Karim Wassef) #38

More stubbornness than patience :smiley:

(Karim Wassef) #39

16mins in … she consumed 200g of protein a day… wow

(Karim Wassef) #40

I did it… I ate 8 cans of chunk light tuna in one meal… along with 11oz of salmon

and I will not do that again. It’s amazing how protein dense red meat is in comparison. I need to find an alternate solution to getting my 240g of protein in.

Tomorrow, I’m supplementing with pea protein and increasing fat to make it more palatable