High meat consumption is compatible with longevity and healthspan

(Todd Allen) #1

Looking at the following two wikipedia pages one finds life expectancy and health span is better in high meat consumption countries. The correlation is imperfect, one can find cases such as the US where meat consumption is the highest and life expectancy is merely decent. But one finds many countries with very high meat consumption and excellent longevity such as Australia and the countries with the lowest meat consumption have terrible longevity. Undoubtedly this is confounded by factors such as wealth and health systems so one can not use this data to claim increasing meat consumption increases longevity. But this data strongly supports a claim that high meat consumption is compatible with longevity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_consumption_per_capita
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

(Karen) #2

I was looking at life expectancy, and wasn’t sure about that. I was a little surprised to see that the average life expectancy for the United States was 80. Average! Israel appears to have a fairly high meat consumption and high longevity, I note

(Alec) #3

Correlation does not prove causation, but lack of correlation does prove lack of causation.

Is that right, or am I talking bollox again? :joy:

(Todd Allen) #4

And the HALE (health adjusted life expectancy) numbers are worse for the US only 69.1 vs 74.9 for Japan.

(Karen) #5

Japan’s meat consumption is fairly low. I think that leads to the idea that eating less meat will give you a longer and healthier life. The carnivore and keto community suggest otherwise. How to interpret all of this?

(Brian) #6

I just saw an article, can’t seem to lay my hands on it again for some reason, that talked about Hong Kong, which isn’t a country so doesn’t get used in data that divides out people groups by country, being the place of highest meat consumption in the world. They also, according to the article, have the highest life expectancy in the world. They also noted India being one of the countries with the lowest meat consumption and also having one of the lowest life expectancies.

I wouldn’t go so far as to draw undue conclusions as there are likely other factors, including economic, that play a role. But being afraid of meat doesn’t appear to be warranted if longevity is your goal.

I thought it was interesting…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

Bingo! :+1:

Indeed. You may notice that, as meat consumption in the U.S. has declined over the past 40 years, life expectancy peaked and has started to decline.

(Todd Allen) #8

I’d mostly agree with that. One could imagine a possibility such as meat consumption being a weak factor against longevity that is countered by stronger factors such as wealth and education. But even if that is the case, which I doubt, it begs the question why is so much attention given to the possible health risks of meat when the negatives are apparently so small that across the whole of humanity those that are eating more meat are living longer?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

Because there are people in positions of power who wish to promote vegetarianism or veganism for reasons other than health.

Peter Ballerstedt, by the way, has abundant data to show that ruminants are actually a benefit to the environment, quite apart from their value as a food source of the highest quality.

(Todd Allen) #10

Thanks Brian! Hong Kong is an amazing data point.
For longevity:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/02/health/hong-kong-world-longest-life-expectancy-longevity-intl/index.html
For meat consumption:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/what-the-world-eats/

HongKong%20meat
HongKong meat.jpg800×553 67.9 KB

(Todd Allen) #11

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Joseph Goebbels

(Connor Underwood) #12

Indeed, that’s truth - we are what we eat

(Bunny) #13

I really doubt meat consumption has any thing to do with longevity, under the microscope it’s quite the opposite; animal proteins accelerate the aging process through IGF-1 (burning mostly amino acids for fuel) and cause cancer.

Everything I have read tells me longevity and mortality are related to metabolism and how the metabolism reacts to how much we eat and when we eat through diet.

Contrary to popular belief meat was not the primary staple of savage men or hunter gatherers as simpletons want to think or would like to think or want you to to think, however, the main staple was in fact fecula starch (from real historical records) which is a type of starch that makes butyrate or short chained fatty acids in the gut from microbes that out number your own DNA so you are basically burning more fat for fuel or ketones with very little meat (amino acids) and fat from animal sources. This is probably why people lived so long in ancient antediluvian times.

If you eat mostly fecula starch (a complex carbohydrate) that is mostly resistant to being metabolized into glucose you will live a long time and out-live any one who eats only meat for sure…

Comparing and attributing longevity to eating meat and fat of animals is like comparing the consumption of cyanide to longevity.

(Polly) #14

This simpleton thinks you are mistaken Bunny.

There is plenty of evidence of butchered bones in the middens of primitive man. Quern stones for grinding grains and roots came much later.

The enormous brain size of modern man arose because of eating meat and fish not because of spending hours grinding roots and then soaking them to create some magic and life enhancing starchy stuff.

See this footage of testimony at the Professor Tim Noakes trial

#15

Very high fish consumption in Japan.

(Todd Allen) #16

The data I presented in the original post suggests a strong correlation between longevity and high consumption of animal foods. Do you have data showing a strong correlation between consumption of cyanide and longevity?

(Bob M) #17

We got big brains because we ate meat:

And if you really want to have fun, compare the heights and weights of groups like the Kitavans (5’4") and the Masai (6ft tall).

Meat rules!

(Bunny) #18

Making intestinal butyrate from cooked and raw complex carbohydrates led to bigger brains and smaller stomachs!

You eat only meat (ammonia metabolism), you have will have a very very short lifespan.

(Polly) #19

Where does this idea come from? Please show your sources!

(Bunny) #20

Will show sources in a bit but first let me outline something about the ketogenic paradigm as we know it and practice it; when you eat animal proteins and fats, and then notice hey I’m in ketosis and my health has improved etc., your coming through it backwards and then we all start thinking well this is supposed to be the way to eat, who needs whole food complex carbohydrates? So we come up with ‘…this must be the only way to eat paradigm?..and leave the real source (butyrate; natural ketosis) out of the picture then we are gravely mistaken and have created serious errors in logic because of the background hysteria surrounding simple carbohydrates or the highly processed and refined laboratory grade foods?

Eating meat and animal fat is a sample of the kind of ketosis that our gut bacteria provides for us naturally which is similar to the fat you would constantly eat from animal sources for the liver and digestive enzymes to break down protein and fats but we also must get protein from animals to get B-12 exclusively however essential amino acids can come from plants also.

Other crazy little nuances is you don’t lose all your electrolytes eating complex carbohydrates and still maintain low blood sugars and have a ketogenic metabolism.

What I’m pointing out here has nothing to do with vegan or carnivore agendas, it has to do with common sense?

Forcing the body into an un-natural state of ketosis that promotes shorter life spans and cancer from very high consumptions of animal proteins vs. a natural form of ketosis that produces longevity and prevents cancer as demonstrated in the Okinawan diet?