High CAC, seeking mechanism

(steve) #1

First post! After listening to a podcast featuring Ivor I arranged for a coronary artery calcification test score. The only good thing about my test is that the cost was only $45 thx to Groupon.

I’m in pretty shape for 67 and have sailed through most any medical test. Until now. 522!

As I understand it the inflammation response due to a lifetime of sugar eating and the subsequent insulin caused some trashing of some of my arteries. Then, trying to heal these damaged areas calcium gets deposited as a protective/healing measure.

I may not have this exactly right but maybe in the vicinity of right. By eating correctly and perhaps with K2 I can stabilize the uptrend which should be the goal.

My question is what is the mechanism that reverses or stabilizes the calcium? Someone asked me how does keto help calcium deposits and so far I’m unable to find the answer. Any study links would sure be appreciated too.

Thx
Steve

(Vincent Hall) #2

Just today I listened to the very same podcast (if it was on the 2KD website?)
Very interesting, I’ve some blood away for cholesterol test, would like to get CAC test done in UK, to get a set point at my 53yr old self.
I’m not so trusting of UK health system after how it’s left my Father now.
\v/

(bulkbiker) #3

If you are looking to self fund the cheapest I found in the UK was at Rivers Hospital in Hertfordshire. Cost £225 a year ago. You can self refer if you pass certain criteria on their website. Quick and painless. My score was 40 which after a lifetime of smoking, drinking and being very overweight I thought was ok… will have it re-done next year probably.
https://www.rivershospital.co.uk/treatments/diagnostic-services

https://www.rivershospital.co.uk/treatments/ct-calcium-scoring

(Vincent Hall) #4

Thanks, worth a trip up I think. I’ll take a look.
\v/

(bulkbiker) #5

Where are you based?

(steve) #6

I think it was Ketovangelist.

After my regular annual checkup the MD, as usual, wanted me on statins. Being overweight too I thought now is the time for keto. Since September I’m down 30 lbs and probably have better lab numbers so the weight loss is an added benefit.

I thought the CAC test would just be a checkoff, something that would be fine and then life continues to be good, etc. But, after the test I’m paying very close attention.

I got a cardiac workup about eight years prior to hernia repair. It would have useful to to get the CAC then but nope, just a stress test.

(steve) #7

Near Dallas Texad

(Rob) #8

I’m not an expert and I’m not sure that you will get much expert opinion since I don’t believe cardiologists generally think you can reverse your CAC. Fortunately several people here are or have done this so there is good anecdotal evidence.

As for the stabilization, the plaques are not just calcium (thoug hhat is what the scan can detect) but also cholesterol (hence the cholesterol scaremongering) and fibrin. The number one thing that keto does is to reduce the inflammation that has stressed the arteries and caused the repairs to be necessary. This alone should stabilize things and prevent the plaques from growing bigger which is the typical cause of something breaking off and killing you.
The reversal mechanisms are not so well known but are probably a combination of autophagy recycling un-needed cells (cholesterol/fibrin), and use of things like K2 which mediates the application of calcium in the body and likely drives the recycling of the calcium to be used in bones etc. rather than floating around the blood.

This is one of many threads you could search here but Victor’s response at #39 is hopeful.
https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/coronary-calcium-score-abc-health-report/6096/39

(steve) #9

Thx! I need to acquire K2 pronto.

(Rob) #10

Yeah. I take it preventatively at only 100mcg which is the RDA but you will probably need to do more digging to know what dose you need.

More may be but isn’t necessarily better since some things can be OD’d but I don’t know in the case of K2.

The good new is that CAC scans are far cheaper and more readily available in the US due to the availability of CT scanners.

(Brian) #11

Something I just saw today that seemed relevant:

M.H. Knapen, et al., “Menaquinone-7 Supplementation Improves Arterial Stiffness in Healthy Postmenopausal Women. A Double-Blind Randomised Clinical Trial,” Thromb. Haemost. 113(5), 1135–1144 (2015).

According to the article that used the above as a reference, it seemed to be saying that there were significant decreases in arterial stiffness after a 3 year trial where one group received 180micrograms of K2 per day while a placebo group saw increased arterial stiffness.

I’m not sure arterial stiffness would be all due to calcification but a decrease in arterial stiffness would seem to be a good thing.

I’ll link the page where I was reading in case you haven’t seen it already. I don’t know if it’s a good source or a bad source, haven’t delved that far into it. I did find the dosage they mentioned interesting, anyway.

(Karen) #12

Also helpful. Added k2 a while ago but there’s interest in L-Arginine

K

#13

I am interested in any research info anyone can point to on calcium deposits. I have been low carb low sugar no grains high fat for over a year but not in Keto for that time. I am now Keto for three months. Second week of Keto I had CT scan for calcium deposits and came back at a very high 1600 score (yes 1600 not 160!) cardiologist is freaking out at Keto and I have rejected statins for 8 years as I took them once and wiped my memory! Now he wants the monthly injection to reduce cholesterol. I had an MRI for my heart at the same time and it was absolutely fine. My LDL reduced from 139 to 119 in four weeks after starting Keto and my HDL is 63 and tryglycerides 83 AC1 5.2. Naturapath put me on D3 and K2 and bi-weekly glutathione IV injections. I am 63 years young!
My concern is how unstable can the calcium deposits become while doing your best to clear them out. Should you perhaps stop dairy on Keto? I take heavy whipping cream in bulletproof coffee along with XCT oil and eat a moderate amount of sharp English cheddar cheese and European cheeses also mozzarella and cream cheese in Keto bagels. I have been on Keto since mid February and lost 10 lbs - very slow as I am insulin resistant and hypothyroid.

(Karen) #14

Vitamin k might help.

http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2017/11/As-We-See-It/Page-01
Oops, I seem to be echoing myself.

K

(Nathanael Schulte) #15

I just finished this book on K2 in a couple days. It’s an exceptional book. If you haven’t read it already, I’d put it up there with “The Salt Fix” and “Good Calories, Bad Caloires” in terms of research value and practical importance.

Vitamin K2 And The Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life

Cliffnotes: Calcium is your cargo, Vitamin A (Retinol) and Vitamin D3 (Cholecalciferol) are like the 2 guys loading the trucks with calcium. K2 is the truck driver. If any of those are out of balance, it can be dangerous. Vitamins A and D3 detoxify eachother, and K2 makes sure the calcium on the truck goes where it needs to (hard tissues, bones and teeth) and cleans it out from where it doesn’t belong (soft tissue, with arteries seeming to be the path of least resistance). If you’re deficient in K2, and start supplementing with D3, it’s possible you’ll just get the calcium into your arteries faster.
Anyway, this is a very important topic to me because my Dad his first heart attack just over 16 years ago at age 50. He initially had some reversal of the disease with chelation therapy, but due to some negligence on the part of one of his doctor’s techs, they almost killed him, and he’s apparently had some blockages get worse in the past 16 years. Anyway, he just started keto, I’m hoping to convince him to do before and after CAC scores with Keto & K2 supplements.