Helping Friends - Those who do not get it!

newbies
friends
(Carolus Holman) #1

I had the pleasure of having dinner with some friends the other day. Two of the people at the dinner annoumce they were KETO like me, exciting I thought! The first thing they asked me was, how do I manage the CHEAT DAYS. I promptly told them I never cheat, and if I accidentally eat some carbs I just KCKO. One of them announced that if they couldn’t cheat they couldn’t do the DIET, I replied with Correct, cheating will not allow you to do the KETO WOE correctly. She had been doing her version of KETO for 2.5 months and only dropped six pounds.

Well the whole conversation went South from there. They also said they only have a few glasses of wine with each meal, I told them that this may slow KETO down, and when they are first starting cutting back may help things along. Flat-Out told me that I was wrong, and that drinking is fine. (I agree there is nothing wrong with drinking moderately, but when you are starting it will be slow!). Then the whole table broke out chocolate and I just gave up. (I am not sure if they ate any chocolate).
*RANT
#newbies don’t ask me for permission to cheat. I don’t cheat and I have done extremely well on this WOE. Asking me for the cheat days is asking for permission for you to cheat, do whatever you want, you are an adult! Make your own decisions, and don’t blame me if you can’t make KETO work for you, which is what you are setting me up for when you ask about cheating.
*******END RANT

#2

+1 and totally agree. It’s hard at first, but if you can make it to adaption, you won’t WANT to cheat.

(Ron) #3

While I appreciate your rant and totally agree, might I make a suggestion?

A softer touch might have gotten a different response. Maybe something like - maybe I could help you in your Keto path that might help calm the desire for those cheat meals if you will let me?
Just a thought?:thinking:

(Carolus Holman) #4

Yes, agreed, but this was at a table and it was mostly talking loudly across the table!

(LeeAnn Brooks) #5

I have a coworker who just started Keto. Well, that’s what she calls it. The first thing she did was give me a link for Raspberry ketones. She bragged how she got a huge bottle for like $4.
I know some people have different opinions on these, but to me they seem like a way people try to get themselves into ketosis without putting in the actual work, which will ultimately backfire in most cases.
She then pulled out a big bag of chocolate covered almonds to snack on. And a bare grilled chicken breast with what looked like streamed vegetables for lunch.
I only asked her if the almonds fit her macros. She said, “oh yes” quite firmly.

Now I didn’t see the label, but it certainly didn’t look like 90% dark. It looked like milk chocolate. And even if it had been near pure dark, in the quantity she was eating it, there’s no way it wouldn’t have been upping her carbs.
And then the poor, poor naked chicken breast.

I just bit my toung and went back to eating my bunless burger fried in bacon fat, coated with cheese, smothered in mayo, topped with avacado slices and minded my own business.

I’m expecting at some point she may come to and tell me Keto doesn’t work.

(Carolus Holman) #6

This is exactly how I have experienced KETO in the wild. For permanent change, most people will need a real health scare. (like me) Once I understood (well who can really understand it all except @richard) the mechanics of it, I belly flopped into it!

(LeeAnn Brooks) #7

In all honesty, I probably would have been much worse off if I hadn’t followed a meal plan my first 4 weeks. This gave me a window to really learn about Keto while I was actually doing it. Now I feel more confident that I can do it on my own. I read newbie posts here (and I’m still a newbie myself) but they seem so lost. I feel like I’ve got a good grasp on my WOE, though I certainly have lots to learn. I’ve got the foundation so to speak. Now I’m just building the structure.

(Ron) #8

Well said! I totally feel the same way on my journey and doing what I can to help others achieve that as I learn.:wink:

(Jeff Gilbertson) #9

I have a coworker who told me his wife was diagnosed with dementia. He said they’ve determined that his wife’s brain is not processing glucose well.

He knows I eat low carb / keto, so when I suggested to him that a ketogenic diet (WOE) would likely help his wife (as the brain functions quite nicely on ketones for fuel), his response was “oh, she tried that but she doesn’t exercise enough to make it ‘work’.”

I tried to press him for more, but it was obvious he wasn’t having anything to do with it.

Last thing he said is they have her on some kind of nasal spray or something that will supposedly feed her brain with glucose.

Oh. My. Word.

I’ve come to the conclusion that people just have to want to search for the truth or we’ll just be getting in arguments with people who don’t know enough to care.

But, it is SOOOO FRUSTRATING.

This poor guy … could be helping his wife and himself have a very different future over the next decade. But no … she doesn’t exercise enough to make keto work, and don’t bring it up again.

:frowning:

#10

That’s very sad. But you did everything you could, there’s a point where if they don’t take the initiative, it just won’t happen. I’ve been in the same position of trying to show friends with chronic disease how keto can help them. I feel often like being in a desperate situation isn’t enough. I think everyone who goes keto has both open-mindedness and a healthy sense of skepticism for what they’re told. And, maybe most importantly, optimism that they can change the path they’re on.

(back and doublin' down) #11

To quote from the Bible, ‘Now Jesus himself had pointed out that a prophet has no honour in his own country’ (John 4:44). Christ also said ‘no prophet is accepted in his home town’ (Luke 4:16-30),

I work every day with clients who are struggling and many of their emotional/mental issues are directly connected to medical issues. It is sooooo hard not to turn prophet about keto. I do review nutrition in general and suggest whole foods, less sugar and processed and some purposeful movement (rather than the E-word).

Also aware those who do note the changes in me (thinner face, eating different) are on their own improvement track and are interested in what I’m doing. Those who I think could benefit the most? They make zero comments and seem to ignore the possibilities.

:sigh:

(Brian) #12

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

I was pretty stubborn during some of my vegan/vegetarian days. There wouldn’t have been anything you could have told me that would have made me think a keto WOE was a good thing. I listened to hours and hours of McDougall and the like and believed every word. I even thought I was pretty healthy, at least for a while, but that didn’t sustain itself. When the health started turning south in rather big ways and the scale started pushing that 300 mark, I finally came to the point where I was actually willing to listen, and in my case, it was a Dr. Berg video.

I found out pretty quickly that a lot of people have an opinion of keto that either don’t know much about it or are not serious enough about it to even try it. In most of my circles, I’m looked upon as an oddity but there are a lot of them that while they may have made some snide remarks in the beginning, they’ve noticed that I’ve lost nearly 65 pounds and am able to do physical things that I didn’t use to be able to do. I even had one lady drop a few hints that maybe I should do an “alternative” class for some of our church outreach to share some of the things that have worked for me. That’s huge considering that it’s a group that generally touts veganism as the ultimate diet and vegetarianism as what should be the “norm”. So we’ll have to see where that leads. I’m not a teacher, but apparently, people have been noticing more than I give them credit for.

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #13

I think a lot of people get into this WOE without doing the requisite research. They don’t understand that the whole thing depends on forcing your metabolism into a desired mode and keeping it there all the time. If they understood how tenuous ketosis is and how vital it is to the diet to remain there constantly (or as near constantly as possible) they might reassess their stance on cheat days. Understanding Keto means that you understand the real penalty for indulging in sugary foods. It’s potentially days of feeling less than optimal while your body clears all the glucose. Days of increased hunger, tiredness, and stalled progress in both weight loss and fat adaptation. With understanding brings motivation to stay the course, or perhaps not embark on this WOE to start with.

(Ellen) #14

Love this! So sad that keto is such a restrictive, bland & non sustainable WOE.

(Ken) #15

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you gave your friends bad information when you went “Full Nutty Keto” on them. Being reinforced by people here who believe the same dogma doesn’t help.

The truth is, that you should have explained that “it depends”. Primarily on their degree of hormonal derangement, fat loss goals, and overall health. After adaptation, they can occasionally eat carbs if they want to, such as one or two days per week and still lose fat.

The best thing to point out is that they will be able to eat carbs periodically and intermittantly (once in Maintenance) as long as they don’t get to the point they chronically overcompensate glycogen.

Far too many people treat “Keto” as a nutty religion rather than understanding the science of Lipolysis and Lipogenesis.

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #16

I think that the people being described here are generally a couple of weeks into keto at most though. Getting fat adapted takes long enough as it is. Don’t you think that it’s probably best to adopt the more “dogmatic” view in the beginning with the light at the end of the tunnel being that you can loosen the reins a bit in 6-8 weeks?

(Ken) #17

Yes, of course. The initial focus is on adaptation, carbs should be as low as possible. This all is a very adaptive process, the goal being hormonal normalization. That is the key. There’s no need to be fanatical or dogmatic.

I once was as well. I’m trying to help people understand what actually happens in the long term. There was nobody then to explain it to me, only my continuous experimentation. Now at least there is more validation coming out.

#18

Totally agree here. Given the message we’ve all been given our whole lives, it’s too easy to start questioning the safety or wisdom of the diet and give up at the first sign of a weight gain or plateau. I haven’t talked to many people about it, but the few who have shown interest and the few others I’ve mentioned it to because of their health problems, I’ve pointed them to books/documentaries that are heavy on the science. Too often, they don’t want that, they want to know what I’m allowed to eat on my “diet”. I try really hard not to get into that conversation, and I say it’s not about what you can or can’t eat, it’s about why. It’s partially selfish, I don’t want to argue with someone about whether apples and bananas are good for us, it’s a waste of time.

I’m curious to know from the folks on these forums. I can imagine being a science-y person helps get on board with keto. But is it a pre-requisite? Are any of you a science-challenged creative genius but figured out the keto thing anyway? Is having to understand the science (without the benefit of doctors advising you about it) a reason more people aren’t doing keto?

#19

I had a cheat day earlier this month (my first one) and I was fine. After doing keto for 6 months and losing 100 pounds I figured I earned it. The cheat meal didn’t knock me out of ketosis or derail me at all. We’re going to have a cheat meal once a month now and it’s okay.

I do think that people should wait at least 6 months before incorporating cheat meals into their way of eating, and they shouldn’t do it too often. Once a month is a good model to follow. Or, maybe wait until a birthday or a holiday.

(karen) #20

For myself, I had to understand the science - or try to, anyway - because of cultural conditioning. It’s been a damn religion for just about my whole life; I’ve been trained to see fat as “scientifically” unhealthy, but I’ve also been conditioned to feel emotionally/physically negative about it. “Oh, that’s got a ring of unrendered FAT on it, disgusting!” “Oh, I feel so greasy, I can just feel my arteries clogging up.” “A minute on the lips, a lifetime on the hips, so put down that sickening stick of butter and grab this here Promise UltraLite Plastic Fantastic.”

I don’t know how to undo the emotional conditioning, but learning the science gave me permission to eat fat, and slowly, as I gain personal evidence, the fear, hostility and disgust around eating fat are dissolving (along with my jelly belly). So I can see that someone who isn’t science-oriented could be at a big disadvantage - the science doesn’t help them and the emotional ‘knowledge’ of the awfulness of fat won’t go away.